Semi-Finals! Kuja vs. Raziel

Who would attend?


Come on! Somebody do something! Sov, get Kuja to come back for this ONE battle. Or Raziel, argue against me!

I've lost it..... Arguing with Raziel.

Again, I don't think you guys are giving Kuja (the character) quite enough credit in this situation. There are a number of flaws in Kuja`s (the member) arguments that unbalance the match.

1) Raziel's TK projectiles are good for little more than stunning his opponents, unless he uses them repeatedly. It is possible for Raziel to kill an opponent with the TK projectiles, but he has to back the enemy into a corner and slam him with TK over and over in order to do so.

2) Raziel's Glyphs are technically magic, therefore if Kuja has any sort of Shell spell the glyphs power will be weakened accordingly. On top of that, Raziel can only use his glyphs so many times before he runs out of magic. His magic meter does not replenish over time like his TK meter does, so he must use those glyphs wisely.

3) One or two shots from the Fire Glyph would not be substantial to kill Kuja. Kuja is capable of taking multiple hits from a 9999 damage Flare spell in the final battle. The Fire Glyph could be considered of equal power to the Fira or Firaga spell, but not a Flare spell.

Raziel does have a good balance of melee and long-ranged attacks, but his real strength lies in melee combat. In order to kill something as powerful as Kuja, Raziel would absolutely have to hack into him with the Wraith Blade. TK projectiles and elemental glyphs won't do it. At least not quickly enough to avoid the encroaching insanity that both combatants face if they don't finish the battle off as fast as possible.

Kuja's main weakness is that his flight (like Magus) can be nullified by Raziel's TK. However, Kuja does have a backup plan in that scenario. The Silver Dragon. The Dragon is just simply too damned big for Raziel to toss around, and as such, Kuja has a way of outmaneuvering Raziel in at least some fashion. Remember, this Cathedral is fucking huge.

In order for Raziel to win, he'd need to get in close to Kuja. In order for Kuja to win, he needs to stay the hell away from Raziel. In most scenarios, evading an enemy (especially when you have a giant fucking dragon distracting your opponent) is easier than chasing an enemy.

In terms of sheer power, Raziel is not capable of destroying an entire planet. The Spirit Reaver (which is not allowed during this fight) would kill Kuja almost instantly, but it can't destroy an entire planet. Kuja's advantage is overhwelming power. His disadvantage is that he has to concentrate and keep himself away from Raziel in order to use that power. Raziel's advantage is speed and agility. He can execute any and all of his attacks instantly, with no "charge time" or "concentration" required. His weakness is that, pound for pound, he can't do nearly as much damage as Kuja can.

The one wild card in this situation is that whole "insanity" thing that's going on in the Cathedral at the moment...

Well like I said. A big difference between HP and a health meter.


Okay let's try this again.

Kuja stood confidently behind the Silver Dragon. It's massive form shielded him from Raziel. "The end is near." Kuja said laughign wildly. He raised his arms and began to concentrate for a magic spell.

Raziel ran quickly at the dragon. He used his TK to fling pieces of stone at the beast, but it ignored them and concentrated it's attacks on him. He moved quickly left and right to avoid the attacks.

Kuja shot off his first spell, Holy. It hit Raziel and he jerked backwards from the force of the attack. He counter-attacled with Sunlight Glyph. His opponents couldn't see a damn thing.

The Silver Dragon still attaciked, but Raziel had dug his claws into the wall and pulled himself upwards. He began to quickly go sideways until he was above the beast. Swooping down like a vengeful angel, he broght the Wraith Blade plunging into it's skull. It fell dead.

Kuja had regained enough of his sight to see his dragon die. He stumbled backwards and quickly flew into the air. He raised his arm to cast a spell. Not enough time. Raziel quickly scaled the wall and launched a Fire Glyph at him. Kuja felt the sting of the attack but he was still pretty much far from death. He raised his arm again, continuing to summon the spell.

Raziel lunged with the Wraith Blade. Slashed Kuja across the chest, dropping them both. Kuja fell to the ground on one knee, whereas Raziel used his wings to lessen his fall's impact.

Raziel walked over and brought his blade down over Kuja's neck. Game over.

Kuja on the Attack

Kuja quickly cast Shell on himself. He then began to summon his spells and start raining them down on Raziel. Raziel is quick enough to avoid most of the spells, but with the dragon and him, it was impossible to avoid everything.

The dragon then rose into the air, it's wings carrying it's body more than fifty feet. Kuja now had clear shots at Raziel. Raziel used Fire Force Projectile to fight back. The dragon avoided it.

Kuja was clearly winning, and he smiled as the inevitable doom of his foe drew ever closer.

Raizel ran quickly to the wall closest to Kuja. To Kuja's amazement, he went through it. He stared, stunned and then he quickly began the chase. His dragon flew through the hallways, making a left turn as it flew towards the spot where he thought Raziel could be. Nothing.

Then, slash! The dragon had been hit with a Water Glyph. Frozen it began falling at an alarming rate. Kuja jumped off and hovered there. Raziel quickly brought his arm up and shoved his blade through Kuja's gut. They both fell then. Raziel halting his fall with his wings. Kuja crashed to the floor.

Hurt, but still not dead. He went into Trance. The light flooded the room and stoon he stood there, fully okay.

Raizel looked in puzzlement.

"Good bye." Kuja said and he summoned everything he had into an Ultima spell. The pieces of pure energy began to fall. Raziel dodged one, got hit, dodged again. Soon, there was a huge crater in the center of this room. Kuja stod there, confident that it was over. Raziel was smart though. The bolts of energy couldn't go side-ways. So he had run quickly to the wall and climbed up it. ;Hurt, but far from dead, he launched himself at Kuja, bringing all the power he had into a stab right through Kuja's chest. The light flashed again and Kuja fell dead to the floor.

Undoubtedly, many flaws here as well. I'm so imperfect it is not even funny.

Edited by Raziel   This entire post consisted of flames, HoH. Don't do it again. You have been warned.

I'm so sorry Raziel. It indeed won't happen again.

Raziel was smart though. The bolts of energy couldn't go side-ways. So he had run quickly to the wall and climbed up it.

...that one doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I recall seeing his Ultima bolts traveling sideways when he destroyed Terra.

Correct. I was thinking more of when he used it in battle.


Okay, how about this.


He switched quickly to Spectral Realm. He turned quickly and fled through the stone wall behind him. When the booming stopped, he ran quickly back into the other chamber and switched back to Physical Realm and he quickly scaled the wall.

And then I would just continue on with my original plan.

Ok i did some reasearch from one of the masters on this subject, we all know who he is , so lets see if i can help kuja kick some vampiric ass!


According to my source, all magical damage deat to kuja is cut in half. Give or take a little bit. All of raziel's glyphs require magic to produce, so all of his glyphs will be doing half damage at best.

As stated before, Kuja has the ultima ability, which we all know can cause massive destruction. And as stated previously, Raziel can only shift into the spectral plane at special shift points. This leads to one of two possibilities. One that could mean an instant win for kuja, bear with me as i explain.

The rules state that once raziel is forced into the spectral realm, the match is over. Now what happens in this scenario. Kuja and raziel are duking it out. Kuja Goes into trance. Its a fierce and close battle. Kuja casts ultima. Seing how it is a fast projectile of seething energy, it hits raziel square in teh chest, he is taking a beating and needs time to recoup, so he looks and finds a spectral shift point. He makes it in. Here is where the brilliance of kuja comes in. He casts some powerful spell (dont know any of the names sorry) and brings the whole cathedral down around them. The spectral shift points are burried deep within rubble. Raziel cant get out from teh spectral realm, so in a sence he is forced to stay there, game over kuja wins.

Another option would be is for kuja to use his emmence power and just bring down the whole arena to destuction. This would affectivly bury the spectral shift points, raziel would have no way of going in them. Puting raziel at a disadvantage.

KUja could also just levitate in trance, spewing all sorts of shit at raziel. Sure raz wont get tired, but one of these projectiles is bound to hit him.

Raziels soul might finally be put to rest...

And as stated previously, Raziel can only shift into the spectral plane at special shift points.

He can shift into the Spectral Realm anywhere at any time. He needs to find a shift point in the Spectral Realm in order to shift back into the Material Realm. Plus, time doesn't exist in the Spectral Realm, so trapping Raziel wouldn't work either. Raziel could spend literally decades in the Spectral Realm and once he found a way back into Material, the fight would resume as per normal. Kuja would percieve no amount of time between Raziel's shift into and from the Spectral Realm.

Because of the fact that the shift points are only located in Spectral, Kuja would have a difficult time locating them, considering he can't see them. On top of that, Raziel has an alternate way of shifting from Spectral to Material, but I won't even bring it up unless it becomes absolutelu necessary.

[A powerful attack Kuja could use is Flare Star.


Consider Kuja just hovers there, throwing spell after spell. All thses spells take time to perform. Raziel, is extremely quick. He could just scale the wall and launch himself at Kuja. Unless Kuja is exactly in the middle of the room and Raziel can't reach him. That would be bad.

But, agility and melee is still on Raziel's side. Kuja needs time to perform thse attacks, and he very well can't do this is Raziel is running everywhere. It would be like that game where you have the hammer and you try to whack the animal that keeps popping out of the different holes. Except, if you don't hit it quick, it will kill you in this instance.

No. Kuja will lose.

The battles are situated in an arena. Its to be taken place in the arena. This building, the cathedral, is just an add on to the arena. You can't necessarily leave the arena. What would stop someone who can fly from flying away when wounded to return later at full health. If kuja brings down the cathedral, in which the cathedrals base is the size of the arena, raziel has no where else to enter the material realm. He affectivly be stuck there, unless you make a rule that states an opponent can leave the arena, and come back at a later time. Because i know he can rematrialize at a shift point thats not obstructed by stuff OUTSIDE of the arena. SO raz, tell me what this other way of switching realm's is, because Raziel is gonna need it.

He can shift at will, but only if he's at full health.


There is a TK Force Projectile Amplifier, making his attacks more damaging. Using this, he can hurt Kuja even more.

I've also discovered something..... Something of great importance......


RAZIEL CAN POSSESS!

Maybe he couldn't possess Kuja, but what about the dragon? He could easilly possess it, and have it attack Kuja. Kuja would be forced to destroy his ally, or have it kill him. It has TK too, so it could prevent Kuja from reaching Raziel's immobile body. Not to mention it is probably faster than Kuja. It could stop him, just by flying at him, and pinning him to the ground.

Also, he can switch back at any time, so he's not stuck in it if Kuja doesn't kill it.

Raziel could also bring the cathedral down with Sound Reaver. It would bring the wall behind Kuja, crashing down on him. Here' how it might go.

Kuja, standing upon his loyal pet's back.

Raziel immediately transfers his soul into it.

"What?" Kuja says, stunned.

It thrashed wildly, throwing Kuja backwards. He recovered, before he smacked into the wall. It turned and began to lash out at him. It jumped right at him, pinning him to the wall.

Kuja can't concentrate his energy and can't raise his arms to attack. It brings it's head down and rips his arms right off, one by one.

Raziel switches back into his body. Silver Dragon is confused. It steps back, and Kuja stands there, armless and bleeding.

Raizel guns forward and brings his Wraith Blade down and threw the dragon's neck. Kuja, armless and defenseless watches.

Raziel brings his arm up, and Kuja is dead.(again!)

Number one, why would kuja be riding on the back of his dragon, when if hes off, in trace, he can still fly. This way 2 people could be attacking raziel. Sure raziel can tk kuja, but that will drain raziel's mana, or the equivalent wouldnt it? And as stated before, it will do reduced damage to kuja anyway.

YOu say he can posess....in what game have you EVER had the ability to posess a boss?? This case shoudl be no different. Raziel can try all he wants, but he shoulnt be able to do it. All hell be doing is draining his mana reserves.

You say tha tthe soul reaver can bring down the cathedral? How and why the hell would raziel do that. He brings it down, he has a huge chance of boulders of SOLID ROCK falling on him. If he does manage to bring it down with a SWORD, mind you its not a grenade, hell be doing kuja a favor. He wont be able to materialzie into the material world without solidifying in solid rock.

Saying that he just can't possess bosses, is totally stupid. Then non-bosses would lose. No, he can possess it. Afterall, it's just a dragon, not a human. Or an amazingly complext beast. Raziel could do it in a snap.

Does it say "Kuja" or "Kuja(Trance) " in the name of this thread? Kuja must Trance, in order for him to be Trance Kuja. He can't just start a battle that way. As far as I know.

Even if he did, he doesn't have to be on the back of his beast to have it attack him. It could just attack him, no matter where he's standing.

Don't you think that removing the structural beams and walls would bring the ceiling coming down? If Raziel can't survive, neither can Kuja. He's not invincible. Giiant pieces of stone crashing down on his head wouldn't be much fun fo rhim. Raziel is quick enough to escape the room. Kuja isn't that fast.

Also, if the dragon died, Raziel could take his soul and use it for his health.


And don't think Kuja would automaticaly know Raziel possessed his dragon. He can be stunned. This is one of those instances where confusion wins a battle.

Saying that he just can't possess bosses, is totally stupid. Then non-bosses would lose. No, he can possess it. Afterall, it's just a dragon, not a human. Or an amazingly complext beast. Raziel could do it in a snap. Does it say "Kuja" or "Kuja(Trance) " in the name of this thread? Kuja must Trance, in order for him to be Trance Kuja. He can't just start a battle that way. As far as I know. Even if he did, he doesn't have to be on the back of his beast to have it attack him. It could just attack him, no matter where he's standing. Don't you think that removing the structural beams and walls would bring the ceiling coming down? If Raziel can't survive, neither can Kuja. He's not invincible. Giiant pieces of stone crashing down on his head wouldn't be much fun fo rhim. Raziel is quick enough to escape the room. Kuja isn't that fast. Also, if the dragon died, Raziel could take his soul and use it for his health. And don't think Kuja would automaticaly know Raziel possessed his dragon. He can be stunned. This is one of those instances where confusion wins a battle.

The dragon isnt one of these simpleton creatures. No simple feeble minded creature can use a phsychokensis attack. Ill post more about it in teh mornin....

It really doesn't matter. Raziel is transferring his soul into its body. Brains or no brains, Silver Dragon's body is no different from that of any other animal.

If kuja brings down the cathedral, in which the cathedrals base is the size of the arena, raziel has no where else to enter the material realm. He affectivly be stuck there, unless you make a rule that states an opponent can leave the arena, and come back at a later time.

To completely destroy the arena is to essentially say that one must be able to leave the arena in order to do so. If the Cathedral is destroyed, then the boundaries of the arena are breached. The only way Kuja could bring the Cathedral down without leaving the boundaries of the arena would be to bring it down on top of himself. That poses a problem, considering he'd be buried in rubble. So, no I'm going to have to say that Kuja is incapable of destroying the entire Cathedral based on the fact that it would be breaking the boundaries of the arena, and the combatants cannot leave the arena until the battle is finished. He can bring down portions of the structure, but not the whole thing.

Because i know he can rematrialize at a shift point thats not obstructed by stuff OUTSIDE of the arena. SO raz, tell me what this other way of switching realm's is, because Raziel is gonna need it.

Raz doesn't need to use his secondary shifting ability in this fight. The fact is, time does not pass in the Material Realm while Raziel is in Spectral. If Raziel shifted into Spectral, he would be shifted right back into Material before Kuja would have a chance to bring the roof down. There is no possible way that Kuja could "collapse the roof while Raziel is in Spectral." He could do it after Raz shifted back into Material, but not during, and if Raz is already back in Material, he can just move anything obstructing the shift point with TK or with his bare hands.

So, what you're saying Raziel is that Raziel can switch to the Spectral Realm and walk over to where Kuja is standing. Then, switch back to Material. And then, bring his Reaver down over Kuja's head?

Here is what happens when Raziel shifts from the Material Realm to the Spectral Realm:

Raziel stands in the middle of a circular stone platform in a grass clearing. There are six, straight stone pillars ringing the edges of the platform. Raziel shifts into Spectral, and suddenly everything around him warps and distorts. Everything around him is suddenly tainted a weird greenish/blue glow and the stone pillars are no longer standing straight, but are crooked and curved now instead. This once open grass clearing is now inhabited by a number of free-floating souls, and a few soul-scavenger creatures named Sluagh. Raziel devours a few souls, and is back at full health in no time. He sees a shift point located in the grass about 15 feet away from the center of that stone platform. He steps into the shift point, gathers all of his spectral energy and manifests himself in the Material Realm. From Raziel's perspective, it feels like about 15 or 20 minutes have passed since he shifted into Spectral.

This is how it would look to anyone who was watching Raziel shift:

Joe is standing about 30 feet away from the stone platform. He sees Raziel suddenly dissolve into nothing. The very instant that Raziel dissolves in the center of the platform, he re-appears 15 feet away from the platform, good as new. To Joe, it would appear as though Raziel teleported and healed his wounds at the same time.

So, no Raziel could not just shift back into Material behind Kuja and attack him, unless Kuja was being stupid enough to stand right in front of a shift point the instant Raziel shifted. Plus, Raziel can't see creatures that are in the Material Realm if he's in the Spectral Realm. He would just have to remember where Kuja was when he shifted.

Raziel still has his speed and strength. Kuja still has to chanel his energies and focus to attack. Just too many overwhelming odds. How can Kuja focus on a blur? Raizel just needs to keep moving and Kuja won't touch him.