God's Set plan for Me

Even though the scientific laws we have now won't allow perpetual motion, doesn't mean it can't be achieved. Laws can always be rewritten

Bull. The laws of the universe don't change on a whim, and can't be rewritten. You can argue that our understanding of those laws is incomplete, and you would certainly be correct in some cases. However, there are things that we have apodictic evidence for. Our understanding of those aren't going to be simply overturned.

The first and second laws of thermodynamics prevent a perpetual motion machine from being feasible. These laws specifically show that perpetual motion can not be achieved. If you think you know better, please publish it and win the Nobel.

So, without any explanation and any actual proof you automatically write it off because the laws say it is impossible? Or are you saying that laws cannot be rewritten? You saying either one is suprising given your extensive knowledge on it, but your imagination may be lacking.

I will present you this question: How would you go about operating outside of those laws?

So, without any explanation and any actual proof you automatically write it off because the laws say it is impossible?

Do you think those laws were based off the maniacal ejaculations of some buffoon? There is nearly 200 years of research backing those findings. If I laid out all of the evidence that has ever been gathered in support of those findings you would probably not be able to read it in the course of your natural life.

I will present you this question: How would you go about operating outside of those laws?

You can't.

Do you think those laws were based off the maniacal ejaculations of some buffoon? There is nearly 200 years of research backing those findings. If I laid out all of the evidence that has ever been gathered in support of those findings you would probably not be able to read it in the course of your natural life.

Obviously not. You would not be able to lay out all of the evidence that has been ever been gathered in your lifetime, so clearly that hypothetical situation would never even happen.

You can't.

That is not true, use some imagination and try again. Where would the laws of thermodynamics not be applied?

Obviously not. You would not be able to lay out all of the evidence that has been ever been gathered in your lifetime, so clearly that hypothetical situation would never even happen.

You missed the point of my post entirely, and responded with a nit-pick.

But in response to your nitpick, I could lay out enough evidence that you would not be able to read it through the course of your life. In fact, I would only have to go up three flights of steps for this to be done.

That is not true

Based on what?

use some imagination and try again. Where would the laws of thermodynamics not be applied?

Nowhere in the universe. Perhaps in the land of fairies and gods you can have your perpetual motion machine.

Based on what?

Based on not being able to prove a negative. Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it won't, or can't.

You are relying too much on the definition of what thermodynamics says cannot be done. You do not have to achieve 100% efficiency to have a machine that could possibly outlive our entire human race. This hypothetical machine would also not have to be friction-free given that more energy is created than being put in. It would only need to create enough efficiency to create more energy than is put in, not to become 100% effective and efficient.

Based on not being able to prove a negative.

You can't bend, fabricate, or in any other way bastardize the laws of the universe based on rather simplistic word games.

You are relying too much on the definition of what thermodynamics says cannot be done.

Right. I have a tendency to side with sound science.

You do not have to achieve 100% efficiency to have a machine that could possibly outlive our entire human race.

You're conflating two unrelated ideas. Are we talking about a perpetual motion machine or a machine that can outlive the human race? They are not the same.

This hypothetical machine would also not have to be friction-free given that more energy is created than being put in.

This is impossible.

It would only need to create enough efficiency to create more energy than is put in, not to become 100% effective and efficient.

You're asking it to be more than 100% efficient. You can't create energy. Again, this is impossible.