Straight from Grav. Zelaron Improvements

What the flip is this? You guys (staff) are acting like blatant tards, aren't you?

I was told by titus not to post, but hell you've gone and got me mad with your bullcrap. I was going to make a thread incorporating some of these ideas; what Slim posted (and titus already had, why are you playing dumb?) was just what people had originally sent me.

What's with the twisting of shit back around at us and the childish games?

Me! Oh, me me me me me! I see it! I think they mean by more freedom of speech that they don't want their posts being Edited. They'd rather see it get trashed then edited? Maybe more Moderation simply meaning, less Sov? I don't know, I'm just trying to throw a bone at these "geniuses" who made this list..

Damn you're a fancy ass aren't you? Should I give you the sarcastic schmuck of the year award? No wait, that goes to DFD. At least he's funny.

You want a list? I'll fire one up now. Here's a list, if you can handle that without insta-spewing a fourth grade retort.


Moderators are not better than Members.
(Special treatment and double standards)

Simply put, if they fuck up, they should get punished the same way we do. I don't see any of that going on here. In fact, the only thing I can recall on Zelaron that relates to staff being persecuted is when a staff member suddenly becomes a common target for other staff, a la taco or penguin. I'm not siding with them, but you know damn well what I mean.


Stop being so damn controlling.
(People want to say what they want, when they want)

Staff should be here to take care of emergencies. The sort of thing I'm talking about is when people from brawl hall or wherever make many accounts and spam up the forums. Slaynish making a thread about his dog shitting on his face in gen con is not an emergency. We don't have that many members that we need to have our threads and posts neatly sorted and filed away to begin with.

And what is up with anti-cursing rules, or having posts edited or trashed? The only time you really need to do that is if someone is being hugely and blatantly racist or insulting their mama. Because it's their damn mama, man. Not cool.


Insulting is fun, so deal with it.
(Moving shit to the flame forum if it contains anything more negative than a proton)

I'm not sure when all this "no flames outside the flame forum" shit started being enforced more than traffic laws, but making snide remarks outside the flame forum shouldn't be such a huge deal. Titus and Bob made about 8 in the their last few posts in this thread. Hell, Titus alone probably did in his last 50 posts. But wait, that doesn't count, right?


That's what I wrote up in the last half hour or so on limited sleep and even less caffiene. I'm sure titus is going to nitpick at every little word, because he always does, but our points stand that this place is way too strict. I went to this forum for the past two and a half years because this place was carefree. When did you guys decide you were going to run this like Auschwitz? Bad move.


For reference - http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31495

I really like this list, theres alot of decent points in there.

Maybe some of the staff will read this.

I agree with many of the preceding and or postceding points to be made.

Sounds good Grav. I agree with you 110%~~!!!!!111oneoneone

I'm basically in total agreement.

Grav basically restated what people have been saying all week.

And yes, the staff should take these 'improvements' seriously.

Let me add another one.

Get rid of D3V

I mean, All he does is hassle other members. I'm not trying to be too bold or anything, but just about everything that he says either doesnt make sense, or is too insulting.

Bah.

Slaynish, if you have a damn problem with me, then IM me on aim or fucking make another one of your gay ass threads in the FF. Your retarted, please be quiet.

Children....knock it the fuck off.

I agree with that list 100%. This is why I wanted to wait for Slim to bring out the list; Grav topped it off nicely.

I agree 100% with everything said in this thread.

I'll give you my opinion on those recommendations, and you'll get no sarcasm from me.

Moderators are not better than Members. (Special treatment and double standards)

I agree completely. The one problem is that there seems to be a general discrepancy on what constitutes double-standards.

As far as I know, nobody around here has recently been banned solely for making a snide remark outside of the Flame Forum. Grav has been banned for creating three separate flame threads in outside forums, all directed at Sov for the intent of angering him. However, I have not seen any normal members as of late being banned for simply making snide comments, which is exactly what you guys are attacking Titus and the rest of the staff for. I see Thanatos, Penny Bags, Slim, Titus, Grav, Sov and myself all making occasional snide comments outside of the Flame Forum, and none of those people are being punished for it because no punishment is warranted. There is a phenomenal amount of difference between a snide comment and a flame. Grav was banned for flaming, the rest of you have been left alone because all you've done is post snide comments. Now, if I'm wrong about that, in other words, if any of you have been recieving warnings from Sov or anybody else regarding your minor negative comments, feel free to tell me about it.

Like I said above, I agree completely with the above statement. Problem is, I don't see any of that shit actually happening.

Stop being so damn controlling. (People want to say what they want, when they want)

Seriously, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS GETTING THIS "NO CURSING" THING FROM? Titus and I have told you all numerous times that there is no such rule. Stop complaining about it because it doesn't exist!

The fact is, there has to be some form of moderation done in each of the forums. A thread about Slaynish's dog shitting on his face is spam, and therefore should be relocated to the Chat Forum. Simple as that. There has to be at least some form of order put into practice, otherwise the place becomes a zoo. The fact is, neither I nor Bob have been closing an unfathomable number of threads lately, and overall our moderation activity has been pretty lax. I don't see what you guys are complaining about, honestly. I thought that I wasn't doing enough moderation, and you guys want me to scale back my activity even more? That's fine by me, but make sure that your complaints actually pertain to reality before you post them.

The plain and simple truth is that this forum is not that heavily monitored. I barely close one thread a week, and I rarely move anything into other forums. I have never gotten on someone's case over vulgarity and the only time I edit a member's posts are when they are an eyesore (like someone posting DIE DIE DIE approximately 50,000 times in bold and italics). You guys are yet again making more complaints where no offense exists. If you can show me proof of facts otherwise, then I'll agree with you 100%.

Insulting is fun, so deal with it. (Moving shit to the flame forum if it contains anything more negative than a proton)

Again, there is a monumental difference between snide remarks and flaming. A flame is an outright insult. A snide remark is just a smartass reply. Flames are direct attacks against the individual, snide remarks are just wiseass comments. There is no rule stating that snide remarks outside of the Flame Forum are prohibited, and I have seen nobody enforcing rules that run parallel to this complaint. The fact is, I've seen very little activity in the Flame Forum at all over the last few months, much less posts or threads being moved to the Flame Forum. So, again, you are making complaints where there is no complaint to be made.

Like I said, I agree with everything you guys have stated so far. I completely agree that moderators should be held to the same standards as normal members, I completely agree that, for the most part, people should be allowed to say whatever they wish, and I completely agree that snide remarks should not be prohibited outside of the Flame Forum. However, none of these complaints are things that are frequent problems on this board, and if they are, it's localized to one, possibly two staff members.

You guys have valid points but shitty complaints. That's what I have to say about it.

Negative comments are different from flames. If someone posts constructive criticism, even if it sounds like a flame, it is fine. The problem occurs with simple name calling and cursing that have no point, other than to degrade someone without intent to improve upon anything. There was a big discrepancy with what should be Edited. Simple enough, the Staff are now aware that only advertising posts should be Edited. Everything else should be Split and Moved to the Trashcan. Mods are now going to PM a member if they think a specific topic isn't deemed appropriate. Then, if it is done again, action will be taken. There are no swearing rules. Swear the fuck away for all I fucking care.

Wow, so glad that you elaborated on what was already known. Good job fellas! If you want more than a fourth grade retort, you best give me better than fourth grade ramblings and cry baby tactics. All these issues have clearly been addressed already, and done so once again by Raziel.

We all know there is not a no cursing rule, and we've already gone over, at vertabim, that a few trite remarks here and there are by all means fine, and even encouraged from time to time, since they are pretty funny.

Like I said, if you see a Staff member getting away with breaking rules, inform someone! Simple as that, no more double standard. I have not received one (1) PM or IM from anyone complaining about any member of Staff, with actual backing to their claim, other than, "I hate them! DE-MOD DE-MOD!" That just doesn't cut it.

I'm not playing dumb, I just didn't want everyone's "fire" to run out by the time Grav got back, which isn't for another week, and in the course of the first week of his Ban, much of the umph was already lost.

Like I said, if you see a Staff member getting away with breaking rules, inform someone! Simple as that, no more double standard. I have not received one (1) PM or IM from anyone complaining about any member of Staff, with actual backing to their claim, other than, "I hate them! DE-MOD DE-MOD!" That just doesn't cut it.

That's precisely what I'm getting at. I agree with pretty much every point listed above, but I don't agree with them at all as complaints. I have yet to see solid evidence that any of those things are consistent or even worthwhile occurences on this forum. Like I said, if people would provide me with links or actual hard facts that these things run rampant on the forums, they would have my complete support in this regard. So far, all I'm hearing is a lot of bickering with no reason behind it.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was just one giant joke on behalf of Grav just to get you guys all riled up.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised either, which is exactly why I am not riled up at all.

It probably isn't a joke, but really, people are struggling to form any sort of complaint that makes sense.

Alright, you want cold hard facts? Let's take D3V's case for instance. He was asked by Bob not to post something, he didn't listen, and he posted that something. That something was not against the rules in any way, shape, or form. Yet, he was banned.

Penguin asked Sov not to post his picture. Sov didn't listen and posted it 4 times, along with PMing me the picture. Granted, this wasn't against the rules either but Penguin specifically asked him not to. Sov didn't get banned. Woah?

The reason why we did/do think there's a no-cursing rule is because of Penny's thread entitled, "Why is most of the Zelaron staff SO GOD DAMN FUCKING ANAL!?!?!?!?" It was later changed to say, "Why is most of the Zelaron staff so ANAL!?!?!?!?!!" - along with a few posts edited in that thread because of the use of cuss words. Woah?

Thanatos is correct about everything in that post.

Are you arguing that you didn't want D3V banned or that you did want Sov banned? By your logic of presented hypocrisy, you can't demand both.

I'm not arguing on the behalf of anyone. Raziel asked someone to bring forth an instance where one of the points on the list were valid. I then did so.

I didn't get banned, no, but I did get warned, and a user note was added to my name. Any mod should be able to see it, I think.

And mind you that was my first major flare up against a staff member in a while.