Objection

NEW RULE.

7. After having viewed a few battles involving Final Fantasy characters, I have decided that they have the capability to severely un-balance their duels because of a large amount of communal resources. Namely Magic. The same applies to super-powerful forms of armor. The new rule is such: unless a certain form of magic (or armor) is specific to a certain character (i.e. Vivi casts Black Magic) then the character does not have access to magic. Also, unless a specific type of armor can only be worn by that specific charcter, they don't have access to it. I've seen too many people basically end all arguments with "Cloud casts Ultima, Cloud wins" or something to that effect. The focus here is on the character's specific allotment of abilities and how you can creatively give them the win using their abilities. Not who has the more powerful shit. This rule takes effect after Auron vs. Master Jinx has ended.

That's the new rule. Its bullshit. I have two MAJOR PROBLEMS with this rule.

1. The power of 99.98 of the FF characters here use these things that are not allowed. Ho w can you not allow magic? The abillity use magic as an offense is the key to all victories in FF. To win in FF YOU NEED MAGIC! Now on to defense. Defending yourself with armor that protects against death or that absorbs a certain element is another key to victory in the Final Fantasy series.
2. What about Seymour Omnis? His ENTIRE arsenal is the most powerful elemental magic such as Firega and Waterga. He can't do shit if you can't use magic. No Ultima, no Dispel, he's fucked!
3. What about skills? Like Auto-Reflect? They aren't armor just skills that the person can learn to defend themselves. Other characters from other games get special stuff. They NEED these skills to survive.

That's about all my complaints. I'd just like to repeat this is BULLSHIT!!! I hate this crap. By setting this rule in place, the FF characters are doomed. The arena will be stained with the blood of these characters... They're deaths are inevitable...

If the power of 99.98% of all FF characters relies on this then it confirms what should be obvious, FF characters would suck fucking ass in a battle with characters from other games. Don't complain about it, either it's completely unbalanced or completely unbalanced, get used to it. I think character specific things only is a perfectly fine idea, all the other characters have only their character specific techniques.

I think maybe the battles should be split up between genres to keep the weird incompatibility from happening.

FF charac against FF Charac.

That would be lame we all know no FF char can beat me.

Just a Question for at least Final Fantasy 10...that means all characters only have an attack..no special abilities whatsoever...FF10 is based on a system where any character can learn any move(besides Overdrives and Summons)...that really drains all power outta any FF10 characters

I didn't say that FF characters can't use magic. If their magical abilities are natural, they can use them. For example, Vivi uses magic because it comes from within himself. Cloud, on the other hand, relies upon Materia for the use of magic. In that instance, one would simply assume that Cloud has access to every single magic spell in the game, on top of immense physical offense and defense capabilities. He can heal himself nearly constantly, and an destroy his opponent in a matter of minutes with Knights of The Round. So, where does it balance out? It doesn't.

As for FF10 characters, you know just as well as I do which abilities are designed specifically for certain characters, Carlos. Every character in that game starts out in a different location on the Skill Grid, and they have a section that is arbitrarily deemed "theirs." Those character-specific skills are fine. Crossing over into other characters' territory is not.

To summarize, if the character can naturally use magic, they can cast it here. If they gain the ability to summon or cast magic from Materia, Espers or Guardian Forces, then it's not allowed. Those are the breaks. I'm tired of hearing people post "This fight ends in three seconds. Cloud casts Ultima, Cloud wins." That's not fun, that's not balanced, that's not fair.

I think maybe the battles should be split up between genres to keep the weird incompatibility from happening.

I don't. It can be fair and balanced, as long as this rule is enforced.

Final fantasy characters are nothing without their shit, that's why they don't walk around naked in the games.

KA, you're not paying any attention to what I'm saying. I got rid of the "armor" portion of the new rule. The only thing that the new rule concerns is magic. Go to the Rulebook thread. I have re-worded it, and I have the utmost confidence that it will clear up all confusion casued by it.

I like this new rule. I mean, don't we all just love those I cast Ultima 9999hp your 0wned arugments?

Not only that, if any FF characters can use magic, what's the different between all the FF characters? Don't they have their own style of fighting, at all? (Well, that's why I dislike FF 10 so much...)

1. The power of 99.98 of the FF characters here use these things that are not allowed. Ho w can you not allow magic? The abillity use magic as an offense is the key to all victories in FF. To win in FF YOU NEED MAGIC! Now on to defense. Defending yourself with armor that protects against death or that absorbs a certain element is another key to victory in the Final Fantasy series.

First, I got rid of the armor rule, you're right that was stupid. You're not reading the magic rule correctly, Kuja. Go back and re-read it, I completely revised it to make it easier to understand.

2. What about Seymour Omnis? His ENTIRE arsenal is the most powerful elemental magic such as Firega and Waterga. He can't do shit if you can't use magic. No Ultima, no Dispel, he's fucked!

Seymour is a different story, as is Kuja, as is Sephiroth. Those are boss characters, and aren't capable of taking advantage of communal resources. Magic is part of their character, therefore they can use it. They aren't capable of sticking Knights of the Round + W-Summon + Mimic + Kill Everything On The Screen Materia on themselves in order to become retardedly powerful The game has already set the boundaries of their power, as opposed to the protagonist characters who have nearly no limits.

3. What about skills? Like Auto-Reflect? They aren't armor just skills that the person can learn to defend themselves. Other characters from other games get special stuff. They NEED these skills to survive.

I'll allow skills of that nature. The characters from FF9 are capable of learning skills like that, and it's all naturally learned, so I'll make this exception.

I hope this is a satisfactory answer, Kuja. I didn't say magic wasn't allowed. Go back an re-read the rule.

I like this new rule. I mean, don't we all just love those I cast Ultima 9999hp your 0wned arugments? Not only that, if any FF characters can use magic, what's the different between all the FF characters? Don't they have their own style of fighting, at all? (Well, that's why I dislike FF 10 so much...)

Exactly my point. Final Fantasy characters from here on out will have to use character-specific abilities and skills if they want the victory. If one of their character-specific skills includes Black Magic or Summoning, then so be it. If their repertoire consists of chainsaws and monster transformations, then that's what they have to rely upon.

I don't see what anybody is complaining about anyway. Cloud still has Omnislash and Squall still has Lionheart. They each have more than enough resources to use. Just not world-shattering, reality-molding magic spells or fifteen-minute summons.

Well Break Points and Overdrives are still a little confusing to me. They are or can be just as powerful as any Materia gained attacks, at least I know Omnislash can be (well, not quite KotR Materia, but still very very strong). Is there a limit on their capabilities of using these attacks?

If it were up to me, Cloud would just Omnislash the shit out of everyone everytime he attacks, for he has no better offensive move, in my opinion.

Stuff like limit break and shit require something in specific like in FF7 it require major beat up and in FF8 very low hp.

Overdrives and limit breaks are sort of similar to Dante when he triggers to Devil Mode. Faster movement, higher damage/defense, more moves, HP recovery.

Overdrives, Limits and Trances are fine, they just react in the same fashion as they do normally. They are the product of taking damage. Ex: Cloud gets hit enough times by Link in close combat, uses Meteorain, and continues the battle.

Alright, well its still unclear. The harder an opponent hits, the faster the bar goes up, so who is to say how many hits it will take for them to use it. Maybe a basic rule of thumb would be that each character can only use a certain skill either once or twice in Battle, or somehting along those lines.

Well unless they are caster and have heal or regen on ff7 wouldnt be able to use more then once the limit break per battle. After all it take serious beat up and twice the beating needed = overkilled.

For ff8 they could use it a few time but then it kinda make it unfair to use it a few time so i say it should be max once.

And for ff9 it take serious beating or situation involving big emotion so it is not likely to happen twice in 1 battle and it should be limited to be able to 1 trance per battle anyway.

I'm not going to re-tool the rule anymore than it already has been. I'm just going to expect the members to be reasonable when using things like Limit Breaks and Overdrives. I also expect the judges to take into account when someone has gone completely nuts on overusing Limits or Overdrives. If Titus, Shinto and myself find someone using Limits or Overdrives as the crutch for their entire argument, then don't expect us to be very convinced.