!King_Amazon!'s Top 10 SNES Games of All Time!

Space jump and screw attack were in Metroid II.

My bad.

Speed boost is just a lame new way to block access to areas, as are super missiles and power bombs.

Are you kidding me? If you look at it that way, every powerup in a Metroid game is a lame way to block access. Almost all of Samus' abilities are used to access new territory. Morph Ball, Spider Ball, Grapple Beam, Space Jump. All of it.

Charge beam is useless unless you run out of missles (and how do you run out of missles in Super Metroid?).

I prefer to use the Charge against regular enemies, rather than unnecessarily spending missiles with abandon. Different strokes.

an overly rigid map structure.

Yeah, because Metroid II's "just keep going deeper" structure was a totally open-ended sandbox design, right?

Hardly series defining.

I'd be willing to bet you're one of three people in the world who would agree with that sentiment.

YES! Donkey Kong Country!

Are you kidding me? If you look at it that way, every powerup in a Metroid game is a lame way to block access. Almost all of Samus' abilities are used to access new territory. Morph Ball, Spider Ball, Grapple Beam, Space Jump. All of it.

• Morph Ball, I don't count as a power up, because you practically start with it.
• Spider ball is used to gain access, but it's not lame, because you can access just about anywhere with just spider ball and a lot of patience.
• Jump ball is just a convenience. Again, with enough patience, you can mostly do without it.
• Space jump can be used to bypass enemies, or to move arround in combat; it's much more than a simple access mechanism.
• Screw attack isn't even used to gain access in Metroid II. Screw attack is just that: an attack. Since it made you invulnerable in Metroid II, it was also useful for retreat.
• Grapple beam, again, has combat usefullness. Anywhere you can get with grapple beam, you could also get with space jump, but you can't hang off walls and shoot with space jump.
• X-ray visor doesn't gain you access to anywhere; if you already know what's there, you can get it just fine without.

On the other hand...

• Speed boost, you might argue, can also be used to bypass enemies, but the fact is that it's only true of areas that were specifically designed for you to be able to use it that way. The ammount of warmup time is so great that you really can't effectively use it except where it was designed into the level, which relegates it to lame access block.
• Super missles. They do three times the damage of normal missles. And you can hold like 20. Right. The sole purpose is an excuse not to be able to access new areas.
• Super bombs. They kill everything in sight -- if it was garbage that you could kill in one shot from your beam. Again, only truely usefull for area access and scripted sequences.

Yeah, because Metroid II's "just keep going deeper" structure was a totally open-ended sandbox design, right?

At least I didn't feel "boxed in". And no, you don't just go deeper; you actually fight the last boss rather close to the surface. The tunnels between areas felt a lot more organic than in Super Metroid. In Super Metroid, it seemed like they opened most areas up into a box shape just because it was a box on the map.

If I remember right, there were some "special" moves in Super Metroid you could do to fully heal yourself and such, took a certain number of missiles/bombs. I never could do them well so I don't know much about them, but that's something pretty nifty.

WetWired, the one major flaw in your argument is your statement that these things are "hardly series defining". The fact is, Super Metroid was series defining, despite your opinion on its quality.

Has the rest of the series made use of the map system crafted by Super Metroid? Yes. Has the rest of the series employed the use of just about all of the equipment invented by the game (including the ones you don't think are worth the time)? Yes. Has the rest of the series used Super Metroid as the foundation for its design and atmosphere. Unquestionably, yes.

Your opinion on the quality or importance of Super Metroid's offerings to the series is irrelevant. It doesn't matter that you are of the opinion that Metroid II is a better game, or that I prefer Metroid Prime over Super Metroid. The quality is not the question here. The fact that Super Metroid created the vast majority of the staple elements of the series (good or bad) makes it the defining game in the series.

Alright, if you think Metroid II is better than Super Metroid, you're a dumbass.

And if you think Metroid Prime is better than Super Metroid, you're a dumbass.

You want a real kick in the pants? I personally think there are about four Zelda games I'd rank higher than A Link to the Past.

And Ocarina of Time is not one of them.

Ok now you're just being crazy.

A lot of it has to do with me burning myself out on that game as a kid, though. It's still a great game, and I do consider it the definitive 2D entry in the series, but I'd say that a few games have taken that original concept and improved upon it dramatically, or re-written it altogether with spectacular results.

I can relate to that. I feel the same way about the game. Doesn't mean I don't think it's a great game.

I think that the only thing that really made Super Metroid better than Metroid II is more interesting boss battles and color (Metroid II being mono- or bi-cromal since it's a gameboy game), though as I said, I find the Grapple Beam to be an interesting and useful introduction.

No TMNT no care.

Loved that game. Turtles in Time?

Wanna tell me more about Actraiser/Soulblazer? Why might I want to play those games?

The games were developed by Enix, the same team that made Illusion of Gaia, Star Ocean and The 7th Saga.

In Actraiser, you play The Master, the God of the game's world. Ages ago, lead by the Master, the world waged battle with the hordes of the demon-lord Tanzra (or Satan, if you prefer). During the course of the war, The Master, in mortal form, was wounded gravely and forced to retreat. He was carried to his Sky Palace by his angelic servants and left to recuperate, which took several centuries. After his restoration, The Master awoke to find his world decimated. Having lost their leader and great advantage, mankind was ground under the heel of Tanzra's minions. Humanity had been annihilated, and all traces of their civilization erased from the planet's surface. As the Master, it is your duty to resurrect your long-dead world and revive your people.

The game follows a specific pattern in regard to its structure. First, you begin by choosing which region of the world you wish to free, done by positioning your Palace above one of the seven sections of the world map. Upon doing so, you descend to the world below and the spirit of the Master inhabits an armored warrior statue to give himself physical form. You then fight through a side-scrolling action level (with some adventuring elements thrown in here and there) and fight the boss at level's end. Upon finishing the first Act, you then get to actually rebuild the town. The game shifts to a top-down city building system akin to a simplified Sim City. You use the Master's cherub servant to guide the development of the town and restore its people. During the course of the city-building portion, you must destroy lingering monster lairs to protect the people, fill the land with homes, farms, roads and other structures, as well as guide the moral, intellectual and societal growth of the town. Once you've eliminated all monster lairs (by leading the townspeople to them and allowing them to destroy the lairs themselves) you complete the restoration of the area by engaging the Act 2 level. You enter a second side-scrolling level, fight the boss and permanently eradicate all threats to that particular land. Then, you simply head back up into the skies and pick a new region to explore.

The game is fantastic considering it was a first-generation SNES game. The visuals and music are comparable to many titles that came later in the system's lifespan. The gameplay is great, with a wealth of options during the sim sections, and frantic action during the side-scrolling levels. The story is really great, too. Again, considering the age of the game, it's pretty incredible how the game approaches a lot of more mature topics, death and faith being two of the more common.

A great game, I highly recommend it.

Soul Blazer was, back then, the successor to Actraiser. Nowadays, the story is quite different. Soul Blazer became the first entry in what is referred to as the Soul Blazer trilogy, which consists of itself, Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma.

The story goes as such. The Freil Empire is ruled by King Magridd. One day, the king is given an offer he can't refuse. A demon by the name of Deathtoll (who is, in context with the rest of the series, Dark Gaia) offers the king one piece of gold for each soul in the empire. The king foolishly accepts the offer, not realizing that he would have to forfeit his own in the process, and he dooms the world to be sealed away for eternity.

An entity known as The Master (again, in context with the other two games, Gaia) watches as his world is consumed and left barren by Deathtoll. Unwilling to allow thess event to take place without a fight, The Master sends his angelic servant, Blazer, to the world in human form. As Blazer, it is your duty to free the imprisoned souls of the world's inhabitants from their confinement within the lairs of Deathtoll's minions.

Soul Blazer follows a less rigid game structure than Actraiser did, and as such, has a lot more adventure elements to be found. The game takes place entirely from a top-down perspective,as you guide Blazer through the various environments. Basically, thw world is divided into seven different areas, each consisting of a town and one or two "dungeon" sections. Upon entering the town areas, you find them entirely barren. In order to fill the towns, you have to enter the dungeons and destroy the enemies guarding the Monster Lairs, which appear as luminescent glyphs on the ground. Upon clearing a Lair, you step onto it like a switch, and some imprisoned thing is released back into its original place in the town. So, for example, you clear a Lair of all enemies, step into it and the town's mayor is freed from captivity. He, along with his house, materialize back in the town instantly. The types of things you can set free can range from people, to buildings, to trees, to animals or something as simple as a flower. You scour each dungeon, clearing out every Lair and completely restoring the town.

Now, the big difference between Soul Blazer's sim segments and Actrasier's is how hands-on the systems are. Actraiser truly is a simplified Sim City, allowing you to direct where people build, as well as using your godly powers to affect the land in various ways. You can send bolts of lightning down to the surface, blow fierce winds through the town, or cause massive destruction with a full-blown earthquake. Each of these abilities comes in use in some fashion or another, and allows you uncover secrets as well as maximize the development of your city.

Soul Blazer, on the other hand, is much less hands-on. You aren't making any big decisions like building placement, what types of things to build or how much space to fill out. You just unlock things and they go where they're supposed to go. However, in my opinion, discovering and interacting with all the new stuff you've unlocked can be just as (if not more) fulfilling than taking full control of the town's development. There's a lot more character and uniqueness to the towns in Soul Blazer, but there's less of a sense of freedom in regard to building them.

On top of that, the action in both games is a much different affair. Actraiser is much harder, and a lot heavier on the action, including frantic combat and some occasionally tricky platforming. Soul Blazer is a bit easier, but its also more RPGish, considering you can uncover a collection of eight different pieces of armor, eight different swords and eight different magic spells to use. On top of that, there's an actual experience system, which sets it even further apart from Actraiser's more action-oriented design.

So, considering you've already played the second and third games in the series, I can't see why you wouldn't want to go back and play the original, Soul Blazer. Actraiser is a fantastic game too, but it never quite expanded as a franchise like Soul Blazer did. I'd highly recommend playing them both.

Aha, I have actually played soulblazer. I didn't find it to be as good as Illusion of Gaia or Terranigma(Illusion of Gaia is the clear winner of the series, IMO, but Terranigma was good too.)

I'm actually playing through The 7th Saga right now. I've never actually attempted to play through it before, but I have played it. Most likely, I stopped before because it's difficult. Well, this game is fucking hard. If you DON'T grind, you won't even make it to the first rune. The story is also mediocre at best. However, I still for some reason like the game. Can't really say why.

I actually started playing back through 7th Saga tonight. I got through Aran castle, but had to stop to take care of some housework.

I just got the Star Rune. HOLY FUCKING SHIT WAS THAT HARD. The apprentice, JESUS CHRIST. I had to try like 20 times before I got it right. Luckily I'm playing a ROM so I can easily save state and such, I'm pretty sure I would have quit the game if I hadn't had that luxury.

Who'd you have to fight? If it was Lux, I pity you.

Wilme, the fire guy. Alien boy.

...yeah, he and Lejes are supposed to be the easiest of the bunch.

Who are you playing as? I'm a Kamil guy, myself.