Do you Believe?

Yeah but where do you draw the line? How far is too far between spending eternity in pain, or sacrificing your morals?
I have considered religion, I have considered other religions, I have decided to be an Atheist, I do not believe in god, one way or another, I cannot force myself to do so, and will not "act" to that or any other extent. I am not making fun of you or your choices, nor questioning your morals, you believe in him and don't act. However, what I am saying is that if you don't believe in him, you cannot nor should try to force yourself to believe in him. Simple as that. If you believe, you believe, if not, keep your honor and be true to yourself.

If the end comes and there is a hell and you are going to it, so be it, but do you think you would go to heaven acting like you believe?

sacrificing your morals

Are you talking about your reference to acting like a believer?

I wasn't telling Grav, or anyone else for that matter, to believe in God. I was providing a reason to think about it. Lots of times, a person will believe something and change his mind on the topic in light of new evidence. What's to say someone couldn't decide to at least check out religion, go to church, become involved, and believe in God?

sacrificing your morals Are you talking about your reference to acting like a believer? I wasn't telling Grav, or anyone else for that matter, to believe in God. I was providing a reason to think about it. Lots of times, a person will believe something and change his mind on the topic in light of new evidence. What's to say someone couldn't decide to at least check out religion, go to church, become involved, and believe in God?

Yes, I was talking about my reference to that.

I didn't say you were telling anyone to believe in it, but you said "if you close your mind to the possibility you are going straight to hell" (paraphrasing), which led me to assume you meant "if you dont believe, you are closing your mind to the possibility, thus going to hell", I guess I was wrong in this assumption.
Anyway, just because someone goes to church once a week for the rest of their life, and say they believe, doesn't mean they really do. I am not questioning your ethics, or your beliefs, or knowledge to know what your beliefs are. I am / was simply stating a thought.

My post was

In the view of the "Believe & True = Heaven, Believe & False = No Biggie" idea

, which was my take on Batosi's post.

I was just pointing out the penalties for assuming wrong.

Yes, however you didn't include the possibility that they werent "assuming" wrong, they were "believing" wrong. If I go through life, as an atheist, and I die, figure out there is a hell and I am going to it... Well so be it. But I wont be assuming there is a hell, I will believe there isnt one.

That sounds kind of confusing... Let me clear it up.
I wont blindly believe, I will believe in the facts, not in the imagination(faith / heart / soul / etc), no offense intended.

Yes, however you didn't include the possibility that they werent "assuming" wrong, they were "believing" wrong.

As a matter of fact, I did.

If I, on the other hand, die tomorrow, and there turns out to be no God...

Although, you subtly implied that you should believe, and if not, you should try until you die. At least that's what I got out of it, maybe I misunderstood?

I implied nothing. I stated my thoughts openly. I said that the benefits of believing (whether there is a God or not) outweigh those of not believing. Therefore, I don't see the logic in at least giving religion a try. By "giving a try" I mean study the history, attend various churches, question the non-believers along with the believers.

I implied nothing. I stated my thoughts openly. I said that the benefits of believing (whether there is a God or not) outweigh those of not believing. Therefore, I don't see the logic in at least giving religion a try. By "giving a try" I mean study the history, attend various churches, question the non-believers along with the believers.

Well, rest assure, I am secure in my beliefs. I have done all that, attending various churches, questioning members of the faith and of other faiths, plus atheists before making my decision.

i never said i didnt believe in nothing i just said i dont have a religion

It really doesnt matter. It's not a topic that should be argued over. I think the people should have the rights to believe in whatever they want. If you believe in god, awsome, good for you, but if you dont, thats perfectly fine too. Its all a matter of choice and acceptance.

It's not like believing in god guarantees you passage in heaven anyway, basically every single thing humans do is a sin and you would be turned down. If god was so great and benevolent he'd let everyone 'good' into heaven regardless of whether they believe or not. Besides, the whole concept of heaven & hell is nonsense. Religion is useful for governments because it keeps the peons opressed. If they believe in an afterlife, then they won't look for a better life while they are in a bad situation. (I.e. Revolutionary Russia (Stalin))

It's not like believing in god guarantees you passage in heaven anyway, basically every single thing humans do is a sin and you would be turned down. If god was so great and benevolent he'd let everyone 'good' into heaven regardless of whether they believe or not. Besides, the whole concept of heaven & hell is nonsense. Religion is useful for governments because it keeps the peons opressed. If they believe in an afterlife, then they won't look for a better life while they are in a bad situation. (I.e. Revolutionary Russia (Stalin))

Here's a branch-off of what Grav was saying... If god is so benevolent, let's say there is an Atheist, for sake of argument let's say that was me. Okay, I live a good life, I help people often, I do volunteer work at charities and homeless shelters, etc. I die one day by a... Let's say car accident... I find that there is a heaven and hell, which would I go to?

Do you think it would matter when I started believing? Because if I saw some big ass white pearly gates after I died, I would "probably" start believing right there. Now, living the good life I had, would I get in or burn in hell? Would "God" really be such a jackass to reject me? Does he require such attention? I thought it was the good deeds that truly counted? Otherwise a person could just go to church once a week, pray every night and not give a goddamn about their fellow man, right?
Just a passing thought.

What you say definitly makes sense. But i think its a combination of the two that gets you into heaven. You could go kill 100 people still believe and worship god and get your ass sent to hell. Likewise if you do good deeds but dont give two fucks about god. But if your a decent person and believe in god then i think your all set. Im not sure. Its a very complicated subject. Im sure its somewhere in the bible but who has time to read through that entire thing. Guess you could go ask a priest.

Here's a branch-off of what Grav was saying... If god is so benevolent, let's say there is an Atheist, for sake of argument let's say that was me. Okay, I live a good life, I help people often, I do volunteer work at charities and homeless shelters, etc. I die one day by a... Let's say car accident... I find that there is a heaven and hell, which would I go to? Do you think it would matter when I started believing? Because if I saw some big ass white pearly gates after I died, I would "probably" start believing right there. Now, living the good life I had, would I get in or burn in hell? Would "God" really be such a jackass to reject me? Does he require such attention? I thought it was the good deeds that truly counted? Otherwise a person could just go to church once a week, pray every night and not give a goddamn about their fellow man, right? Just a passing thought.

Here's the most I can take from the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist religions on your topic. It is not the "good deeds" that count. Good deeds are all good, but they will not get you into Heaven no matter how many you do.

The main principle of all these religions is what you have to do to get into Heaven. A person must be born again to get into Heaven. That means the person must believe in God, believe that God sent his only son to die for your sins, and accept Jesus as your personal savior.

It doesn't matter how good your are. It only matters that you believe and accept. Oh, and also, I'm pretty sure you have to believe before you die. It's like on the Simpsons (I use this because hopefully most people will have seen it) in the second season Halloween special. The aliens (Kang and the other two who I can't think of their names at the moment) take the Simpsons from Earth. They say they will take them to their home planet to be treated as gods. They treat and feed the Simpsons well on the spaceship, but Lisa thinks they are just being fattened up to be eaten. She confronts the aliens only to find out that she is completely wrong. Now Lisa believes that the aliens are friendly (believes in God), but it is too late. The Simpsons are dropped back off on Earth for our viewing pleasure.

Well then that is one fucked up "God", holding predjudice against someone for not believing in him until death / proof, even if they live the life of a Saint, minus the Saint part.
If there is one, and I see him when I die, I am kicking that fucker in the nuts.

Now if you had said that living a good life was the main point of getting into this unproven "Heaven" then I would of said "Hey, I still dont believe in 'him' but if he does exist and I find out when I die and start believing, he isn't so bad."

However... It's like it just craves attention.

By the way, still 100% Atheist.

It takes no effort to believe in someone when you have proof.

I don't even know what to say to that it's so horrible...

No kidding.

PROOF!!! this is where I come in ...but I'm not...I'm tiered fo saying the same thing...I'm tiered of saying that God leaves proof for those who want to see it,those who don't, and the stupid idiots who bitch and complain cause they have to think about...kinda like the little kids who cried cause they could never find Waldo!!!(if you just look once you can see him...it's that fucking easy...)

Getting into Heaven:thank you...something new to talk about that will get old quick...There's nothing hard to it...He makes it sooo easy that you don't have to lift one finger...you just sit down if you want to...Jesus did everything for you...you just ask Him to come into your heart so you can be saved...you understand He died for your and my sins...He died because you killed that man and if you truly feel sorry for it (and He always knows how you feel...)you will go to heaven...

Timing to get into heaven: it's like school work...it's a deadline. You must turn the paper in at that time...no if's ands or buts ppl! otherwise you are fucked right? RIGHT!!!!!!11 If you don't want to believe in Him now why then?We had to do more things then the man that said "Well hey! It's all coming together now!!!"

I have no fucking clue what you just wrote. It's like you mixed up speeches from four evangelists and tried to make a point. Well, I don't see it. All I see is a good reason to not abuse the "!" key.