Question: How did the universe begin?

truer words were never spoken robot, although i'll admit i had to read it several times to fully understand all the concepts u spoke of.

I completely agree with most of what u've said. Our own mortality impairs greatly our own ability to fully understand the universe. We constantly look back at birth and look forward (not hoping for, you know what i mean) towards our death. It is in our nature. We see both as mortal truths and our entire comprehension of the universe is impared by it. The fact that something that may never have had a beginning or end will always seem alien to us.

Being a devoted and loyal Christian, I do believe in the one who has always been. So many people agree that God (in some form) has always been there. For them he exists outside of our universe, an omnipotent being. Thus there is no reason to look for where they fit in, in comparison to Gods eternal existence. This is where time comes in. Since we view "our time" as having both a beginning and end (birth and death) we encompass all time to have one aswell. It is far easier to comprehend yourself when looking at something with similarities. Viewed as more of a measuring stick, where we only see how we measure up and where we're at.

In short, I think that God is out there. He lives outside of our mortal realm and is as much a caretaker as he is the almighty. Time is a mere expression that we use to try and define existance. Things that begin and end will make more sense to us as we are able to relate to them.

Mayb in death we will find our answers. If we die, and thats it, there's nothing left, God can be dismissed as a simple species explanation for life and we'll see time is as mortal as us. Maybe we go on to live it again, repeatedly. We'll then see that life is that never ending cycle, no start or finish only a track to infinity. But maybe, and just maybe, we'll find ourselves face to face with the almighty himself. Free to sit with the creator and watch eternity unfold.

The greatest question and greatest answer may be the best explanation anyone could give:

Why?
-Because.

We have somehow gained the world and lost our soul, yet once we see over the yonder of ourselves, peace of mind will be waiting. Love in this world has gone so cold. How are we going to glimpse the truth if it's far too late? With so much space between us all, we will truly never know the meaning of within. Do we all have an importance in this world? I believe we do, but we need some sort of ambition first. However, if the meaning of within is being, then isn't it true that we have to make this decision? We could be perfect, supplementary to the fact that most of us feel we are only human. The Bible states we keep holy the Sabbath Day. How do we know this doesn't mean live? It doesn't really matter if you're wrong; you're right.

Let me ask you. Have you seen beyond yourself? Have you found out who you are?

but ultimately it surprises me very much that there are any atheists left. especially in the scientific community, actually every years there is a drop in atheists, the more we learn about physics and such but there are still some. im not putting them down, im just wondering why now that we have come far enough that science is working hand in hand more and more with faith, how anyone, provided they are seeking scientific truth, cant see that there is something outside the universe, something powerful enough to create it! and that, existing outside of time, is eternal, the alpha and omega, encompassing both beginning and end, as this Being is master of both, being independant of both, and subject to neither.

My ideals tend to be Atheist BECAUSE I went to a Catholic school. The majority of the devout self proclaimed religious people I have met in my life were also among the most hypocritical. You are correct in that the nature of existence cannot be explained. I however, disagree with your logic to simply classify the way the building blocks fell on a higher being.

My ideals tend to be Atheist BECAUSE I went to a Catholic school. The majority of the devout self proclaimed religious people I have met in my life were also among the most hypocritical. You are correct in that the nature of existence cannot be explained. I however, disagree with your logic to simply classify the way the building blocks fell on a higher being.

haha, yeah, most of the people i know who are atheist, actually probably 90% of them went to Catholic school. i think that has something to do with it. weather it be the resentment built up through developmental stages in youth having an unfortunate target or what i cant say.
regardless of how blessed or holy anyone is, they are human, noone likes seeing that, noone likes seeing their parent get hurt. to child this protector is invincible and any suggestion otherwise is intolerable!

its very damaging when someone who is in a postion you are supposed to respect behaves in a far more human (or devious) manner.

its funny how bad people getting into good positions can spoil the entire scene. if the people at my work knew some of the things ive done im sure they would be very dissappointed with me, i doubt they would lose faith in the medical field but who knows!

anyway, you said you disagree with my logic to simply classify the way building blocks fell on a higher power.
the logic is not simple, just solid. this is a fairly early and atiquated debate really, its true the universe to be orderly must be held that way by an outside force, the fact that order requires action from outside to maintain it is true, and it is a fact that following that out to the farthest rung you reach a point where sentience is required, some amount of logical will. otherwise you could just assume that somewhere beyond our universe a pair of scissors is mindlessly floating there somehow keeping everything in order. obviously this is obsurd. why? because a pair of scissors has no mind.

now someone could say, well what if the scissors ( i know this sounds weird as an example but scissors are as good an example as anything for this) were large and had a magnetic field and thats what was keeping the universe in order somehow.

following that, for the god-scissors to have a quality like that that could keep anything in order. that quality must be orderly as well, something like a magnetic field, if it were chaotic, it couldnt be holding anything like the universe in order at all. so whats keeping the scissors in order since they have no will?

my point, though i went about it in a really really weird way, is that the final rung, eventually you have to get to a begginning of order, and not a beginning in a temporal way, a begginning in a primary numbers kind of way, if you know what i mean.
the beginning, being orderly must, not because i want it to or thats what i think but because this is what the equation requires, must have a will. an awareness. this acts on the other things making them orderly. without a will or awareness, logic is impossible. It makes sense, follows rules... is orderly, therefore must be made that way, and as logic is nothing more than a sensicle set of basic rules, decisions were made to make them that way. this is not my opinion, this is truth whos alternatives are impossible. decisions were made to make them that way. at the core and nature of logic it is engineered as something that makes sense. without a mind, that is truely impossible.


wilma, i like what you said about time. its totally right on, ive always said that too, ive said that time is more like the metric system than it is an essence. its only what we use to measure the movement of reality as it stirrs within now. thats all.
try to think of 3 seconds from now, all youre doing is counting in your head, things have changed, did you even move? it makes no difference. it isnt real, it only serves to ease our minds from the sense of a horizontal freefall if we actually understood now is the only thing that is real along with the consequence of actions because they move with us, while we remember what happened yesterday it is not in the past, it is still with us, only it has changed, we call these changes consequences, but its like watching a pint of guinness settle when it gets that nice head on it!
all the foam comes up to the top, has the foam from the beginning been left behind in some impossibility? no of course not, its just taken a different shape, its grown or whatever.
you get what i mean. but its funny how if you think about that enough you can almost see a glimpse of how time isnt real at all, its just like counting in your head. you werent even counting at all, the chemicals in your mind that to your consciousness equal your voice saying 'one" have changed to the ones that equal you saying "two" and thats its. nothing more, there wasnt even a sequence, just the changing of chemicals though all the chemicals for one two and three still simultaneously exist.

well ive given myself a headache, so peace!

I'd have to go on a religious note. Put it this way. God has always existed, nobody created him/her. But it's always been there. Now God has the power to create, and give. God's powers must have created the universe. Not too sure how it works. This could just be a Matrix type thing, we're just one big ass test tube, and somebody is having us for their science project.

This is the first of a series of posts by me that will make all of you think about what you have said.

D3v... who's to say that the universe has always existed? If God has always existed, why couldn't the universe always exist. How can you even prove existence outside of your own thoughts? You can't. Sure, you think therefor you are... but maybe that existence is only based in one area... your own "head"... so to speak. But who created you?... God? What created God? If god always existed couldnt the universe have done the same? And thus, an eternal cycle... infinity...

And the "Giant" test tube could be comparitavely small to everything else... maybe we are in a test tube in side of a test tube inside of a test tube... and so on and so forth.