Tals Set.

Ok I have noticed in West recently that Tals set has made a huge come back not only are people wanting it all the time but also selling it for ridiculus prices ...I want to know why ,what the big thing about it thats making people want it now.

Here is the comparison I made in this thread. This pretty much explains it all.
http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread....light=Tals+Set


Ok, I've been wanting to do this for awhile. I hell-baal a LOT, and wear Tal's full set. I actually get called a newb a lot for doing so...the most common reason given is "tal's belt/armor/ammy + hoto and shako ownz tal's set". The other most popular reason subs Occy for hoto. I'll just get that one out of the way right now...yes, with Occy and Shako, you will have 100% more mf than Tal's mask and Orb. However, like many, I cannot stand the random teleport, especially as much as I telebaal...I prefer complete control.

So then, let's take a look at Full Tal's versus Tal's armor/belt/ammy + shako and Hoto.
In order to be complete, I did NOT use a skill planner to give you these stats...I used my character, so what you're seeing is actual in-game results.
To be thorough, here's my level 87 meteorb sorc:

Hard Skill Points:
Cold: 20 points Frozen Orb/1 point Cold Mastery (I have the luxury of having a roomate who runs a max conviction pally...henceforth, me putting more points in this is a waste, due to the -100 resistance cap)

Fire: 8 in Fire Bolt, 20 in Fire Ball and Meteor, 11 in Fire Mastery (I also put a point in enchant...with plus skills, it's level 10, so I effectively add 110 fire damage and a fat 101% AR bonus to my party and their mercs/minions for 360 seconds every run...worth it, imo).

Equipment is Tal's set, 3 um'd Headhunters, Chance Guards, War Travs, and 2 sojs. In inventory, I don't run any skill charms except an anni...for that matter, I run exactly an anni, a 40% gheeds, and 20 7% magic find charms.
For this test, I will simply be swapping out Tal's Orb (it's a 2/2/2 orb...vital, imo, to at least have the 2's in the skills you use) and Tal's mask with Hoto and Shako.

Damage: I will be focusing on Frozen Orb, Meteor, and Fire Ball damage.

With Tal's set:
Frozen Orb is at level 29, damage is 482, Cold Mastery is at level 12.
Fire Ball is at level 29, damage is 5199, Fire Mastery is at level 22.
Meteor is at level 29, damage is 11115, Fire Mastery at level 22.

Subbing Hoto and Shako:
Frozen Orb is at level 30, damage is 432, Cold Mastery is at level 11.
Fire Ball is at level 30, damage is 5333, Fire Mastery is at level 21.
Meteor is at level 30, damage is 11385, Fire Mastery at level 21.

Just glancing at the numbers, they're pretty damn close, eh? First impression would be that your Frozen Orb is significantly better with Tal's, while Fire Ball and Meteor are slightly better with Hoto and Shako.

But that would not be accurate without further investigating the 'other' Tal's Orb effects...namely +15% Cold Damage (which is obvious above) and -15% Fire and Lightning Resistance (which is not).

Let's take Hell Baal for example, as he has 50% resistance against both cold and fire:

----
Tal's Frozen Orb: 482 damage, 50% Baal Cold resistance -75% resistance from level 12 CM; net effect is 482 + 25% = 602.

Hoto/Shako Frozen Orb: 435 damage, 50% Baal Cold resistance -70% resistance from level 11 CM; net effect is 435 + 20% = 522.

I do 80 more points of FO damage with Tal's over Shako/Hoto...this represents a rather stout 15.3% more damage.

----
Tal's Fire Ball: 5199 damage, 50% Baal Fire resistance -15% resistance from Tal's Orb; net effect is 5199 -35% = 3379.

Hoto/Shako Fire Ball: 5333 damage, 50% Baal Fire resistance -0% resistance from equipment; net effect is 5333 -50% = 2666.

Oww...I do 713 more points of Fire Ball damage with Tal's over Shako/Hoto...this represents a HUGE 26.7% more damage with Tal's.
This pretty much tells you what'll happen with Meteor...

----
Tal's Meteor: 11115 damage, 50% Baal Fire resistance -15% resistance from Tal's Orb; net effect is 11115 -35% = 7224.

Hoto/Shako Meteor: 11385 damage, 50% Baal Fire resistance -0% resistance from equipment; net effect is 11385 -50% = 5692.

Yep...I do 1532 more points of initial Meteor damage with Tal's over Shako/Hoto...this represents a fat 26.9% Meteor damage improvement with Tal's Orb/Mask over Hoto and Shako. Naturally, this applies to the per-second burn damage from Meteor as well.
----

In a nutshell, I do 15.3% more Frozen Orb damage, 26.7% more Fire Ball damage, and 26.9% more Meteor damage using Tal's Orb and mask to complete the set versus using Hoto and Shako in conjunction with Tal's armor/ammy/belt. Folks, that's a LOT more damage.

Just because I want to be complete in this thread, I'll compare the added stats outside those already mentioned (skills, damage modifiers):

Tal's Orb, Mask, and set bonus gives you:
-50% Faster Cast...please note here that if you just use belt/armor/ammy, you lose the 10% bonus on the ammy...net effect by using Hoto/Shako is a 10% FCR gain.
-267 life (57 Orb, 60 Mask, 150 set bonus)
-10 energy from the orb (effect gets boosted by sojs)
-107 Mana (77 Orb, 30 Mask)
-25% Faster Hit Recovery (I like this for telebaalin)
-150 defense, +50 versus missiles
-65% All Resists (15 from Mask, 50 from set bonus)

The replensh +10 life and 65% magic find bonuses are shared between the two setups.

Shako and Hoto gives you:
-2 to all attributes
-130 Life and 130 Mana (1.5 per char level...I'm level 87)
-10% Damage Reduction
-10% net more Faster Cast Rate (see explaination above)
-75% more melee damage to demos and 100 AR to demons (uh, who cares)
-3-14 cold damage and 7% mana leech (because I melee so much)
-10 Dex (nice for max block sorcs)
-Replenish Life +20
-Increase Maximum Mana 15%
-All resists between 30 and 40

What all that means on my character screen is:
With Tal's, I have 1147 life, 873 mana
With Hoto/Shako, I have 1014 life, 892 mana

So I have a lot more life and a little less mana with Tal's. Those differences will change 1.5 per level +/- where you're at compared to level 87.

So Hoto/Shako, as far as useful stats, gets me a little more mana, 10% faster cast, 10 dex, and +20 to replenish life...at the cost 15.3% FO damage, 26.7% FB damage, 26.9% Meteor damage, a lot of life, 25% faster hit recovery, roughly 100 defense (more versus missiles), and somewhere between 25 and 35% Resist All, depending on the quality of your Hoto.

Meh, I'll stick with Tal's

This example is for a meteorb sorc...actually, he's becoming more of a Fireball sorc each level, cuz 5100+ damage not on a timer is rather effective, and I will continue to invest 1 point into Fire Bolt and two in Fire Mastery as I level.

I suspect these net results would be similar for other builds, including lightning, simply because of the +2 mastery and -15% on the lightning Tal's Orb would give. Commentary/proof welcome on that...I don't have a light sorc.

This is also a commentary on your basic pvm/mf sorc gear...this sorc with ist'd tals/ptopaz tal's helm and armor runs 513% mf standard (333 from equipment, 180% from charms), and then weapon-switches to a dual ist'd Baba and 3-isted Headhunter's for boss kills (adds 222 mf at level 87) for a total of 735% when whacking a boss, not counting my merc (who runs quite a bit...over 300, so if the merc kills, I'm well over 1000% mf). I think that's a rather respectable magic find percentage given the fact that I have really good kill speed and max resistances.

Maybe they realized that full Tal's gives more dmg than partial Tal's + Occy and Shako.

What did your merc have on to have over 300 mf?

hmm..........

IDK. I didn't do the tests myself. Someone else did it.

for pindlbot i stay with my traditional gear!
harle+occu+skulders+lidless+wt+goldwrap(or arachnid)+chancies+gheeds charm
tals ammy!!!!!!! (or a +2 mf would be even better)+2 soj or 2mf rings
(+anni, but thats not really possible now in ladder, for me...)

all socked with a coldfacette for blizzard, and pindl dies and i collect his drop

but for a pvm, tals is VERY funny, and gr8, thx 4 the info, it was new to me

wtf ???? cold facets ??????? ist or ptopaz, but hell no cold facets for pindleruns >.<