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Posted 2009-12-08, 10:08 PM in reply to Combinatus's post starting "...which reminds me of the following..."
tl;dr - In the 1970s, "Global Cooling" was the problem at hand. Might put things into perspective for you?
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Posted 2009-12-13, 06:02 PM in reply to Grav's post starting "tl;dr - In the 1970s, "Global Cooling"..."
Grav said: [Goto]
tl;dr - In the 1970s, "Global Cooling" was the problem at hand. Might put things into perspective for you?
Are you for real!? Whoa!
I wonder if that's for true. I'm gonna ask some people over 30 or 40...
Skurai
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Posted 2009-12-13, 11:29 PM in reply to Grav's post starting "tl;dr - In the 1970s, "Global Cooling"..."
Grav said: [Goto]
tl;dr - In the 1970s, "Global Cooling" was the problem at hand. Might put things into perspective for you?
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/15...-89-9-1325.pdf
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Posted 2009-12-14, 01:55 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0..."
Sorry buddy... I get my facts from Glenn Beck, not some "scientists."
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Posted 2009-12-14, 02:26 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Sorry buddy... I get my facts from..."
Oh. Well in that case, my humblest apologies.
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Posted 2009-12-14, 03:32 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Oh. Well in that case, my humblest..."


Most climatologists (sans Phil Jones and some of his CRU associates?) agree that global warming is happening, and that it is probably man-made. The trends of global warming do display a notable correlation with the amount of solar radiation and its band (spectral) distribution[1]. Thus, the latter conclusion about man playing a significant role in making, or ever having made matters worse is not fully validated.

The thing is, none of that really matters. Since no climatic model can currently represent all of the relevant variables, the only responsible thing to do is to take action against global warming. If we end up taking action in vain, another global depression may ensue. If we don't take action yet (man-made) global warming becomes unstoppable, Earth may become the next Venus.

On a related note, I wonder how far-reaching the consequences of the CRU leak will become. After all, it is becoming increasingly apparent that a small cabal of climatologists have sought to control the overall agenda to increase and gain funding beyond that which could have been previously expected:

http://www.aei.org/article/101395
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Posted 2009-12-14, 03:56 AM in reply to Combinatus's post starting "Most climatologists (sans Phil Jones..."
Props on finding a speciously more credible source (AEI), something Adrenachrome was not able to do. I must concede that a noticeable minority of scientists have a dissenting opinion concerning anthropogenic global warming. That said, many of the dissenting scientists are in the pockets of the oil companies. You will find a much smaller percentage of scientists dissenting from the consensus at independent institutes of study.

I feel obliged to point out that AEI is funded by two multi-billion dollar oil corporations, Koch industries and Gulf oil, and is a conservative think tank. It has essentially bribed scientists with $10,000+ to critique the IPCC's assessment of the current climate situation; an assessment that is in accordance with the scientific consensus. Furthermore, Hayward is a frequent contributor to AEI. If AEI were truly an unbiased source then the vast majority of the literature there would be in support of global warming. I would challenge you to find one article there espousing that view.

Also, Combinatus, Newsweek essentially retracted the article you posted above claiming "that it was so spectacularly wrong about the near-term future."

Last edited by Demosthenes; 2009-12-14 at 04:26 AM.
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Posted 2009-12-14, 04:56 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Props on finding a speciously more..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
I feel obliged to point out that AEI is funded by two multi-billion dollar oil corporations, Koch industries and Gulf oil, and is a conservative think tank. It has essentially bribed scientists with $10,000+ to critique the IPCC's assessment of the current climate situation; an assessment that is in accordance with the scientific consensus. Furthermore, Hayward is a frequent contributor to AEI. If AEI were truly an unbiased source then the vast majority of the literature there would be in support of global warming. I would challenge you to find one article there espousing that view.

According to the most recent annual report on the AEI website the sources of revenue were:

36% Individuals
27% Conferences, Book Sales and other revenues
21% Corporations
16% Foundations

I think the above values are from their 2007 report since I could not find their 2008 report. So if 2007 is a typical year then corporate donations appear to be 21% of their revenue. However it is possible that some conference attendees were employees of corporations and had their conferences fees paid or reimbursed by their employers. Thus the revenue from corporations might be more than 21% but how much more is difficult to tell based on the information I have found. I am not an AEI supporter or defender but I do think if we criticize AEI then the criticism should be based on presenting the information. And I do think AEI should be criticized; just like I think the ExxonMobil, the IPCC, the UN, the local knitting club and every other organization should be criticized. No sacred cows and no free rides.

Now to the broader issue of funding and research. It is often implied indirectly or said explicitly that individuals and groups will bias their research and reporting based on their funding. Given what we know of humans this would not surprise me. However I suggest that we need to avoid automatically discrediting something just based on funding since it is possible for accurate research to be funded by a source with a vested interest just as it is possible for inaccurate research. I am not saying the outcomes are equally likely; I am just saying both are possible.

I would also caution people who continue using funding source as a basis of criticism that this is can boomerang. Consider the various governments, companies, foundations and other sources who claim that global warming is a serious, imminent, human caused threat. If the amount that they put into funding exceeds the amount put in by ExxonMobil and similar companies then the funding argument can backfire.

I mention all of this because I really think we need to de-politicize the entire discussion and have an open and transparent discussion with all of the raw data, the research methods, the assumptions, everything placed for all to easily and freely see and evaluate.

So for example how about reading the article (http://www.aei.org/article/101395) and criticizing it based on its content not on the website on which it is published. I have read the article. Most of what I read in the article are things I had seen elsewhere, although the part of the article about improving IPCC and improving climate research might be interesting. However, more in-depth analysis is needed for those proposals.

Last edited by Combinatus; 2009-12-14 at 05:16 AM.
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Posted 2009-12-14, 07:03 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Sorry buddy... I get my facts from..."
Grav said: [Goto]
Sorry buddy... I get my facts from Glenn Beck, not some "scientists."
I got a chuckle out of this. You know I've actually seen the SNL spoof of Glenn Beck more than I've seen the actual Glenn Beck. SNL usually is a 'heightened reality' but in some of their fox spoofs they're sadly very close to the mark.

Demosthenes" said:
Props on finding a speciously more credible source (AEI), something Adrenachrome was not able to do. I must concede that a noticeable minority of scientists have a dissenting opinion concerning anthropogenic global warming.
I actually wrote a research paper on the subject and found plenty of credible sources against climate change(but more supporting it). The university has a database of articles by professors and academics from far and wide, white I believe is connected to most major universities worldwide. As you would imagine, it's much more credible than Google. Although if you search Google's scholarly articles and are willing to sift and have plenty of time to read, you can find interesting stuff too.
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Posted 2009-12-14, 07:09 AM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "I got a chuckle out of this. You know..."
S2 AM said: [Goto]
I actually wrote a research paper on the subject and found plenty of credible sources against climate change(but more supporting it). The university has a database of articles by professors and academics from far and wide, white I believe is connected to most major universities worldwide.
I would believe it. We have a geology professor here who says that claims of man-made global warming are overstated.

Combanitus, you have given me a lot to read. I will get back to you after finals.

Last edited by Demosthenes; 2009-12-14 at 07:23 AM.
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Posted 2009-12-14, 02:03 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "I would believe it. We have a geology..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
Combanitus, you have given me a lot to read. I will get back to you after finals.
Just finished number 4 out of 6 as we speak
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Posted 2009-12-14, 07:41 PM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "Just finished number 4 out of 6 as we..."
S2 AM said: [Goto]
Just finished number 4 out of 6 as we speak
Nice. Where are you going? The way the schedule somehow happened to fall for me I have all 5 over the next two days.
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Posted 2009-12-24, 02:17 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Sorry buddy... I get my facts from..."
Grav said: [Goto]
Sorry buddy... I get my facts from Glenn Beck, not some "scientists."
What's a scientist?
Skurai
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Posted 2010-01-22, 01:25 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "What's a scientist?"
Quote:
-2000 to 2009 was the warmest decade since records began
-2005 was warmest year of all time, 2008 coolest in decade
-Global temperatures have risen 0.8 degrees Celsius since 1880
http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science...ex.html?hpt=T2

Quote:
The first decade of the 21st century was the warmest ever on Earth according to data released by scientists at NASA.

The U.S. space agency's data also revealed that 2009 was the second warmest year since temperature records began in 1880, and only narrowly cooler than 2005, the warmest year ever.

2008 was the coolest year of the decade but this was attributed to a strong La Nina which causes extensive cooling of the central and eastern Pacific Ocean.

James Hansen, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) said in a statement: "There's substantial year-to-year variability of global temperature caused by the tropical El Nino-La Nina cycle. When we average temperature over five or ten years to minimize that variability, we find global warming is continuing unabated."

In the past three decades, GISS report surface temperature records show an upward trend of about 0.2 degrees Celsius (0.36 degrees Fahrenheit) per decade.

In total, according to GISS, average global temperatures have increased by about 0.8 degrees Celsius (1.5 degrees Fahrenheit) since 1880.

GISS sources its data using over one thousand weather stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and research station data from Antarctica -- all of which, they say, is readily available to the public.
I think that pretty much can sum up the whole humans vs nature argument.














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!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
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Posted 2010-01-22, 01:58 PM in reply to D3V's post starting "http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/01/..."
Except it can't, because proof doesn't stop them from sticking their fingers in their ears LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU
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Posted 2010-01-22, 02:37 PM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "Except it can't, because proof doesn't..."
You know, that is true.














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D3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidences
 
 
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Posted 2010-01-22, 10:48 PM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "Except it can't, because proof doesn't..."
!King_Amazon! said: [Goto]
Except it can't, because proof doesn't stop them from sticking their fingers in their ears LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU
There's not such thing as proof, in america, my friend.
Skurai
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Posted 2010-01-23, 09:16 PM in reply to D3V's post starting "http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/01/..."
Interestingly, for the UK, this winter has been the coldest for decades. Nor have I seen snow like we had for fifteen years.
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Posted 2010-01-24, 07:33 PM in reply to Lenny's post starting "Interestingly, for the UK, this winter..."
Indeed. It looks like Kagoms profecy was true. I'm feeling pretty hungry. Where's WW?
Skurai
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