Zelaron Gaming Forum  
Stats Arcade Portal Forum FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Zelaron Gaming Forum > The Zelaron Nexus > General Discussion > Opinion and Debate

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

 
Reply
Posted 2008-02-24, 11:11 AM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "Right. Of a glacier, about 90% of it..."
Water expands like 9 or 10% when frozen supposedly. In that case the change will be little to none, since 90% is already underwater. The poor coral reefs are fucked.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Willkillforfood read his obituary with confusionWillkillforfood read his obituary with confusionWillkillforfood read his obituary with confusionWillkillforfood read his obituary with confusion
 
 
Willkillforfood
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-02-24, 05:47 PM in reply to Willkillforfood's post starting "Water expands like 9 or 10% when frozen..."
90% of icebergs are underwater, now without even slightly researching it, I can confidently tell you that most glaciers are not in the water, they are on land.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Adrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzAdrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Adrenachrome
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-02-25, 07:01 AM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "90% of icebergs are underwater, now..."
So, this goes back to Lenny's point. If these massive amounts of ICE on LAND melt, the water level will rise. It's as simple as that. Not only will the water level rise, but the Planet heating up could also have more severe weather changes that we are really unable to perdict, which is why I get so frustrated when people completely downplay Global warming and completely dismisss it as "not our fault" and don't care to take care of this poor country we're slowly destroying.

Where I live, we are roughly 5~7 feet above sea leval, now, if anything we're to shift within the next 10-15 years, I'm pretty much fucked, along with all of Florida which average above sea level is like 12 feet...














Quote:
!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
...
[quote=!King_Amazon!]notices he's 3 inches shorter than her son and he's circumcised [quote]
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
D3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidences
 
 
D3V
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-03, 04:26 PM in reply to D3V's post starting "So, this goes back to Lenny's point. If..."
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c..._id=&Issue_id=

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm

Man made global warming is a ploy to govern and tax the world, get a grip kids.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Adrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzAdrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Adrenachrome
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-03, 04:35 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?F..."
Anthropogenic global warming is not some conspiracy. The scientists aren't in some sort of cahoots with the left. It is very real. I have tests all week, but give me until saturday, and I will post all that I know on the subject to back my claim.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Demosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to be
 
Demosthenes
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-03, 04:36 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Anthropogenic global warming is not..."
mjordan2nd said:
Anthropogenic global warming is not some conspiracy. The scientists aren't in some sort of cahoots with the left. It is very real. I have tests all week, but give me until saturday, and I will post all that I know on the subject to back my claim.

*noted.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Adrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzAdrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Adrenachrome
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-11, 08:00 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "*noted."
Researcher: Basic Greenhouse Equations "Totally Wrong"

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+...ticle10973.htm

Quote:
A graph showing agreement of model predictions with data from both the Earth and Mars

A simplified view of the new equations governing the greenhouse effectNew derivation of equations governing the greenhouse effect reveals "runaway warming" impossible

Miklós Zágoni isn't just a physicist and environmental researcher. He is also a global warming activist and Hungary's most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol. Or was.
That was until he learned the details of a new theory of the greenhouse effect, one that not only gave far more accurate climate predictions here on Earth, but Mars too. The theory was developed by another Hungarian scientist, Ferenc Miskolczi, an atmospheric physicist with 30 years of experience and a former researcher with NASA's Langley Research Center.

After studying it, Zágoni stopped calling global warming a crisis, and has instead focused on presenting the new theory to other climatologists. The data fit extremely well. "I fell in love," he stated at the International Climate Change Conference this week.

"Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations," Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.

How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.

Miskolczi's story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution -- originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today -- ignored boundary conditions by assuming an "infinitely thick" atmosphere. Similar assumptions are common when solving differential equations; they simplify the calculations and often result in a result that still very closely matches reality. But not always.

So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference ... but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down.

NASA refused to release the results. Miskolczi believes their motivation is simple. "Money", he tells DailyTech. Research that contradicts the view of an impending crisis jeopardizes funding, not only for his own atmosphere-monitoring project, but all climate-change research. Currently, funding for climate research tops $5 billion per year.

Miskolczi resigned in protest, stating in his resignation letter, "Unfortunately my working relationship with my NASA supervisors eroded to a level that I am not able to tolerate. My idea of the freedom of science cannot coexist with the recent NASA practice of handling new climate change related scientific results."

His theory was eventually published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal in his home country of Hungary.

The conclusions are supported by research published in the Journal of Geophysical Research last year from Steven Schwartz of Brookhaven National Labs, who gave statistical evidence that the Earth's response to carbon dioxide was grossly overstated. It also helps to explain why current global climate models continually predict more warming than actually measured.

The equations also answer thorny problems raised by current theory, which doesn't explain why "runaway" greenhouse warming hasn't happened in the Earth's past. The new theory predicts that greenhouse gas increases should result in small, but very rapid temperature spikes, followed by much longer, slower periods of cooling -- exactly what the paleoclimatic record demonstrates.


However, not everyone is convinced. Dr. Stephen Garner, with the NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory (GFDL), says such negative feedback effects are "not very plausible". Reto Ruedy of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies says greenhouse theory is "200 year old science" and doubts the possibility of dramatic changes to the basic theory.

Miskowlczi has used his theory to model not only Earth, but the Martian atmosphere as well, showing what he claims is an extremely good fit with observational results. For now, the data for Venus is too limited for similar analysis, but Miskolczi hopes it will one day be possible.
Polar bears caught in a heated eco-debate

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/clim...s_N.htm?csp=34

Quote:
Polar bears caught in a heated eco-debate


Enlarge By Paul Richards, AFP/Getty Images

A polar bear with her cub on the edge of Hudson Bay outside Churchill, Mantioba, Canada, in November 2007.

Eskimos in Alaska and Canada have joined to stop polar bears from being designated as an endangered species, saying the move threatens their culture and livelihoods by relying on sketchy science for animals that are thriving.

Although they say sea ice has melted, some Natives question the accuracy of the most dire predictions of a warming climate in the Northern Hemisphere, and members of the Inuit Circumpolar Council seek evidence that a change would seriously harm the bears.


Their stance has put them at loggerheads with a usual ally: environmentalists who say the bears need protection now to survive a warmer climate in the future.

"It would have a really big effect on us Inuit, because we go by dog team to traditionally hunt polar bears," said Jamie Kablutsiak, who guides U.S. trophy hunters for big money onto the ice on Canada's Hudson Bay. As for the bears, "I don't think they're decreasing because there's usually lots, even in summer time," he said.

A decision by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will come soon, spokesman Bruce Woods said.

The petition marks the first time a healthy species would be considered at risk under the Endangered Species Act and the first time global warming would be officially labeled a species' main threat.

Polar bears have increased from a population of 5,000 in 1972 to between 20,000 and 25,000 today.

The Center for Biological Diversity submitted a petition in 2005 for endangered species protection based on projected habitat loss due to global warming.

The petition resulted in a 2007 report by the U.S. Geological Survey, which predicted a loss of two-thirds of the world's polar bear population by 2050, based on a projected 42% summertime loss of "optimal polar bear habitat" such as shallow-water sea ice.

Some scientists, however, question predictions that sea ice will disappear, and even that polar bears would disappear if it did.

Richard Glenn, an Alaskan Inuit hunter and ice researcher, told U.S. senators in January that "marginal ice," which freezes in winter and melts in summer, will grow as multiyear ice disappears.

"Even the Fish and Wildlife Service study acknowledges that … may be beneficial to ice seals and polar bears," he said.

The aim of the environmentalists is to use the Endangered Species Act to force the U.S. government to take action on global warming, said Kassie Siegel, a lawyer for the Center for Biological Diversity. It would require federal agencies "to look at the cumulative effect of greenhouse gases on polar bears" and limit emissions by cars and power plants, Siegel said.

Alaskan Gov. Sarah Palin disagrees with that approach.

"If you want to address climate change, address it directly," said Doug Vincent-Lang, Palin's coordinator for endangered species.

To the Inuit, the polar bear has been a source of food, clothing and income for millennia, said Duane Smith, president of the Inuit Circumpolar Council in Canada, which represents Inuit across Canada.

The Inuit Circumpolar Council, which represents Native communities in Greenland, Canada, Alaska and Russia, wants Fish & Wildlife not to make a decision until Natives have a greater role, Chairwoman Patricia Cochran said. Any decision should be based on "sound science," which includes traditional knowledge, Cochran said.

Big money is at stake. Sport hunters pay between $25,000 and $30,000 each to bag a polar bear.

The Alaska Nanuuq Commission, which represents Eskimos on polar bear issues, supports the listing as long as it allows subsistence hunting by Alaskan Inuit to continue. Executive Director Charlie Johnson said the group chose to avoid clashing with U.S. environmentalists.

The conservation scheme works because "it's in the best interest of the (Inuit) people out there to maintain the (bear) populations," Smith said. But it may end if the bear is listed because U.S. hunters will be banned from importing any part of the bear, such as a pelt, Smith said.

"The numbers of polar bear are good," said Smith, a former conservation officer for the Canadian government.

Steven Amstrup, chief polar bear researcher for the U.S. Geological Survey, said climate models predict that it will be warmer by midcentury than "ever in the course of polar bear evolution." Other scientists question that view.

Willie Soon, an astrophysicist at the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said far too few data were used to make predictions about both climate change and polar bear behavior and populations.

"We looked at historical studies. The first thing you notice is the whole climatic system undergoes huge fluctuation," Soon said.

Over the possibly 200,000 years the polar bear has existed as a species, it has survived "very harsh conditions" of extreme cold, such as ice ages, and warmth, such as the last interglacial period, 100,000 to 110,000 years ago, Soon said.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Adrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzAdrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Adrenachrome
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-12, 07:36 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?F..."
I've been told that for years and have decided to just let the two sides battle it out and learn about it as much as I could. I favor that it's bullshit tbh.

The world changes naturally. Some form of nitroglycerin changed freezing temperature worldwide. All monkeys learned to use a tool simultaneously. People believe Bush is a pretty cool guy. These are all anomalies.

But the world goes through a pattern as the poles near their flip. It's a natural cycle.

I suppose that the tropical climate of the dinosaurs was caused by car emissions.

Last edited by Atnas; 2008-03-12 at 07:42 PM.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Atnas shows clear signs of ignorance and confidence; the two things needed to succeed in lifeAtnas shows clear signs of ignorance and confidence; the two things needed to succeed in life
 
 
Atnas
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-14, 08:13 PM in reply to Atnas's post starting "I've been told that for years and have..."
Just wanted to let you know, I still intend on responding. I haven't forgotten about this, just been busier than I anticipated.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Demosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to be
 
Demosthenes
 



 
Reply
Posted 2008-03-14, 08:54 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Just wanted to let you know, I still..."
I figured as much, I didn't assume you were ignoring it

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Adrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzAdrenachrome enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Adrenachrome
 



 
Reply
Posted 2009-12-08, 08:48 AM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?F..."
Adrenachrome said: [Goto]
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c..._id=&Issue_id=

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm

Man made global warming is a ploy to govern and tax the world, get a grip kids.
Cnn said:
Do you believe global warming is a proven fact caused by man?

Yes 56% 79138 votes
No 44% 62816 votes


Total votes: 141954
I can't believe, at this time in the 2000's almost one decade through, so many people still don't believe that Global warming has been caused by man.














Quote:
!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
...
[quote=!King_Amazon!]notices he's 3 inches shorter than her son and he's circumcised [quote]
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
D3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidences
 
 
D3V
 



 
Reply
Posted 2009-12-08, 10:02 AM in reply to D3V's post starting "I can't believe, at this time in the..."
D3V said: [Goto]
I can't believe, at this time in the 2000's almost one decade through, so many people still don't believe that Global warming has been caused by man.
Well... global warming is a misnomer. It's really global climate change. Some parts of the world will get colder, so you can't call it purely warming. Also, temperature shifts are a normal part of the planet's life cycle. So while climate change is occurring, how do we determine how much of it is due to the planet and how much is due to us?
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Grav never puts off to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrowGrav never puts off to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrowGrav never puts off to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrowGrav never puts off to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrowGrav never puts off to tomorrow what can be done the day after tomorrow
 
 
Grav
 



 
Reply
Posted 2009-12-08, 11:04 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Well... global warming is a misnomer...."
That's the million dollar question. I mean, there are other factors playing into this as well such as the poles shifting, and the natural occurrences that happens every few thousand of years. Then again, there is no denying that the amount of pollution we put into the air on a daily basis has to be harmful to our enviorment.














Quote:
!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
...
[quote=!King_Amazon!]notices he's 3 inches shorter than her son and he's circumcised [quote]
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
D3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidences
 
 
D3V
 



 
Reply
Posted 2009-12-08, 07:16 PM in reply to Grav's post starting "Well... global warming is a misnomer...."
Grav said: [Goto]
[...] Some parts of the world will get colder, so you can't call it purely warming. [...]

...which reminds me of the following article!


The Cooling World

There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.

The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars’ worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.

To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”

A survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972.

To the layman, the relatively small changes in temperature and sunshine can be highly misleading. Reid Bryson of the University of Wisconsin points out that the Earth’s average temperature during the great Ice Ages was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras – and that the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average. Others regard the cooling as a reversion to the “little ice age” conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and northern America between 1600 and 1900 – years when the Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice and when iceboats sailed the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City.

Just what causes the onset of major and minor ice ages remains a mystery. “Our knowledge of the mechanisms of climatic change is at least as fragmentary as our data,” concedes the National Academy of Sciences report. “Not only are the basic scientific questions largely unanswered, but in many cases we do not yet know enough to pose the key questions.”

Meteorologists think that they can forecast the short-term results of the return to the norm of the last century. They begin by noting the slight drop in overall temperature that produces large numbers of pressure centers in the upper atmosphere. These break up the smooth flow of westerly winds over temperate areas. The stagnant air produced in this way causes an increase in extremes of local weather such as droughts, floods, extended dry spells, long freezes, delayed monsoons and even local temperature increases – all of which have a direct impact on food supplies.

“The world’s food-producing system,” warns Dr. James D. McQuigg of NOAA’s Center for Climatic and Environmental Assessment, “is much more sensitive to the weather variable than it was even five years ago.” Furthermore, the growth of world population and creation of new national boundaries make it impossible for starving peoples to migrate from their devastated fields, as they did during past famines.

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.

—PETER GWYNNE

Newsweek, April 28, 1975
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Combinatus enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHzCombinatus enjoys the static noises of ten television sets simultaneously tuned to 412.84 MHz
 
 
Combinatus
 



 

Bookmarks

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules [Forum Rules]
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Global Warming? Do you Believe? D3V Opinion and Debate 15 2007-11-09 04:31 PM
How do you combat global warming? khwiii News and Events 34 2007-05-27 06:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:13 PM.
'Synthesis 2' vBulletin 3.x styles and 'x79' derivative
by WetWired the Unbound and Chruser
Copyright ©2002-2008 zelaron.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site is best seen with your eyes open.