Serious RM Discussion #1

This forum is getting pretty boring so lets say we have a serious discussion about somethin that has to do with RM, .... damnit ... any ideas what to discuss?

I know we could discuss the brand new RPG Maker 2000...Oh, we did. How about the new RPG Maker 2K3. We did that too, huh. What about the neverbefore seen RPG Maker XP. I guess we have seen it. Unless we get more RPG Maker games made, we have nothing. Oh, we could talk about something to talk about. Like we are now. Let's see if we can get over 50 posts that are trying to think of something to talk about. No one should come up with anything that we can actually talk about, just make it like, "Oh, we could talk about Zelda! The new one for Gamecube rocks!", then someone could answer, "Hey, that one was already discussed in the Gamecube thread!" Then we just keep talking about nothing but something. See? Guess not. Oh well.

Well, we can discuss the coding style difference between 2K3 and XP.

Nah, discuss the...erm...fact that XP is supposed to be the better engine, yet RM2K3 outclasses it full stop.

Nah, discuss the...erm...fact that XP is supposed to be the better engine, yet RM2K3 outclasses it full stop.

The DEFAULT engine outclasses it full stop. Custom engines have yet to make a major impression on people, besides the side view battle system that's included by default in RPG Maker 2003 anyway.

But yeah, I'm debating whether or not to make a full list of the differences between RPG Maker 2003 / XP's default engines.

Go for it? Well if you want to take the time.

Go for it? Well if you want to take the time.

This is just the MAP EDITOR WINDOW, and I'm only including GUI differences.

+ denotes good, - is bad. Obviously.

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(Note that, 1/8 zoom view is also missing, but this is less of a GUI issue than a feature issue.)

-Keyboard menu shortcuts are gone (alt+F SHOULD open the File menu, but it no longer does.).
-Keyboard shortcuts that ARE available aren't labeled (for example, Help should have F1 by it, and the Layers should have F5/F6/F7/F8 by them, F12 to test play, etc).
-Drawing tools are no longer right above the tiles, where they should be.
-Toolbar icons are now able to be selected from a dropdown... This is absolutely useless without keyboard shortcuts. It's just clutter at this point.
-Maps are no longer centered while viewing them. To see this, do the minimum map size (20x15). XP draws it in the top-left, 2003 centers it.
-Maps that don't take up the full editing window have a neutral blue around it instead of a "this isn't part of the map you bozo" diamond pattern. This is bad, considering the large amount of water in most games.


+Cut/Copy/Paste/Delete are now available on the toolbar, in the proper location. This is nice, useless for me but is a good idea for people who don't like Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V, etc.
+Play button now green, and is on the right-most side, which is nice.
+Save/Open/New icons are now the more familiar Windows icons.

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These are all usablity issues, and look like they're made by someone who hasn't read up on good GUI design.

This is just the MAP EDITOR WINDOW, and I'm only including GUI differences. + denotes good, - is bad. Obviously. ---------------- (Note that, 1/8 zoom view is also missing, but this is less of a GUI issue than a feature issue.) -Keyboard menu shortcuts are gone (alt+F SHOULD open the File menu, but it no longer does.). -Keyboard shortcuts that ARE available aren't labeled (for example, Help should have F1 by it, and the Layers should have F5/F6/F7/F8 by them, F12 to test play, etc). -Drawing tools are no longer right above the tiles, where they should be. -Toolbar icons are now able to be selected from a dropdown... This is absolutely useless without keyboard shortcuts. It's just clutter at this point. -Maps are no longer centered while viewing them. To see this, do the minimum map size (20x15). XP draws it in the top-left, 2003 centers it. -Maps that don't take up the full editing window have a neutral blue around it instead of a "this isn't part of the map you bozo" diamond pattern. This is bad, considering the large amount of water in most games. +Cut/Copy/Paste/Delete are now available on the toolbar, in the proper location. This is nice, useless for me but is a good idea for people who don't like Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V, etc. +Play button now green, and is on the right-most side, which is nice. +Save/Open/New icons are now the more familiar Windows icons. ---- These are all usablity issues, and look like they're made by someone who hasn't read up on good GUI design.

(reminds me of the debate of how starcraft 2 should be)
Maybe they did that on purpose and they will improve on the upgrade (or is Xp soppose to be rm2k4...)

how about we discuss graphics in RM (drum role)

Oh oh, I can do this.

The graphics in XP are far superior.

RM2K = Not so good. The monsters looked like they had been hand-drawn, the battles were just bad, maps didn't look at all good, and the tilesets are complicated.

RM2K3 = Better, but not much. Monsters looked computer-generated, so were much better, the battlers were actual animations and were great, the maps looked better, but the tilesets were again complicated.

RMXP = Great. The graphics are bordering on 2D 3Dism. The monsters are better drawn and such, the maps look amazing, and colourful, and the tilesets can't be simpler. The battle charas, however, have gone backwards. They look hastily sketched, weirdly coloured in, and they don't move. They just sit at the front of the screen, staring out at you, whilst some monster behind them tries to do as much damage as possible to an ungaurded back.


I decided some time back to put the RMXP graphics into RM2K3 format etc. I have done some and uploaded them to a site, but am thinking that they don't work, so am redoing them.

For tilesets etc. it is too hard to create lots of different ones, so am going to compile them on request. You tell me what is wanted, I will provide as much as possible.

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No, no discussion about graphics. Talk about...the lack of the good options in the event menu. Such as no Call event to call an event on that map page. Gotta go into common events and create and such. Very annoying.

how about we discuss graphics in RM (drum role)

Oh oh, I can do this. The graphics in XP are far superior. RM2K = Not so good. The monsters looked like they had been hand-drawn, the battles were just bad, maps didn't look at all good, and the tilesets are complicated. RM2K3 = Better, but not much. Monsters looked computer-generated, so were much better, the battlers were actual animations and were great, the maps looked better, but the tilesets were again complicated. RMXP = Great. The graphics are bordering on 2D 3Dism. The monsters are better drawn and such, the maps look amazing, and colourful, and the tilesets can't be simpler. The battle charas, however, have gone backwards. They look hastily sketched, weirdly coloured in, and they don't move. They just sit at the front of the screen, staring out at you, whilst some monster behind them tries to do as much damage as possible to an ungaurded back. I decided some time back to put the RMXP graphics into RM2K3 format etc. I have done some and uploaded them to a site, but am thinking that they don't work, so am redoing them. For tilesets etc. it is too hard to create lots of different ones, so am going to compile them on request. You tell me what is wanted, I will provide as much as possible. ---------- No, no discussion about graphics. Talk about...the lack of the good options in the event menu. Such as no Call event to call an event on that map page. Gotta go into common events and create and such. Very annoying.

can we just discuss the faults of and rewards of one rm system.... o yea i just like doin the quote thing =)

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I havent played RMXP but I agree that the tilesets are way to complicated even after you learn where to place them and they're arnt enough

Edit:

Fixed a double post

Oh oh, I can do this. The graphics in XP are far superior.

Eh, they're better, but you can just copy/paste the graphics in between them and there's really no noticable difference - Enterbrain just hired a better graphics artist for this one.

The battle charas, however, have gone backwards. They look hastily sketched, weirdly coloured in, and they don't move. They just sit at the front of the screen, staring out at you, whilst some monster behind them tries to do as much damage as possible to an ungaurded back.

YES. I have no idea why the battlers face away from the monsters, but that's just stupid. Of course, reverting back to a front-battle system is dumb enough, but this is just nasty frosting on a poison cake.

No, no discussion about graphics. Talk about...the lack of the good options in the event menu. Such as no Call event to call an event on that map page. Gotta go into common events and create and such. Very annoying.

Ok

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RM2k -> RMXP

- is removed, = means changed (beyond a simple renaming), + means added

-Face Graphics (no facesets)
-Change Hero Title (doesn't exist in XP, your title is your class)
-Change Face Association (no facesets again)
=Change Equipped Items (split into Weapons and Defense Items)
-Change Vehicle Graphic (no.. vehicles. Stupid XP)
=Change System BGM (split into Battle and Victory)
-Change System Sound Effects
-Set Screen Transitions
=Simulated Enemy Attack is dummied down to Damage Dealing (less options)
-Show Inn Message (Inns must be hand-made now)
=Memorize Location (can still be done via variables)
=Recall to Memorized Location (can be done via Teleport and variables)
-Enter/Exit Vehicle
-Set Vehicle Start Position
=Trade Two Event Locations (Done within Change Event Location)
-Store Terrain ID
-Store Event ID
=Hide Screen/Show Screen (This is a bit tricky. If you Prepare Transition, the screen will simply update in the background, until you execute transition. If you want the screen to fade to black, you Prepare Transition, Tint Screen to black, then Execute Transtion.)
-Flash Sprite (although, you can do this via battle animation)
-Halt All Movement
-Play Movie (no movies in XP)
-Change Map Tileset
-Change Encounter Rate
-Tile Substitution
-Teleport Target Management (no Teleport Magic)
-Allow/Disallow Teleport
-Escape Target Management (no Escape Magic)
-Allow/Disallow Escape
-End Event Processing (Doable via labels, but come on)
-Call Event

+Common Event (a dummied down Call Event)
+Local Switch Operations (new to XP)
+Allow/Disallow Encounters (instead of setting Encounter Rate to 0)
+Change Map Settings (Change Parallax Background + Fog/battle background changing)
+Tint Fog (separate from Weather effects for some reason)
+Change Fog Opacity
+Rotate Picture
+Tint Picture
+Play BGS (new to XP)
+Fade Out BGS
+Play ME (new to XP)
+Stop SE (instead of playing (OFF) sound effect)
+Completely Heal Monster
+Transform Monster (now separate from monster abilities)
+Call Script (new to XP)

Nice list.

First of all, Aurv. I think you may the wrong end of a stick, or I've just mis-interpretted your post. The RMXP tilesets are extremely simple.

Wow Blue. The BGS, SE and ME are also in RM2K3 (don't know 'bout 2K), but are just music files full stop. If you import the BGS/SE/ME into RM2K3 and just name them with BGS/SE/ME after them (optional) then they are used in more or less the same way.

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Hmm, discuss...something random...animations in RMXP compared to those in 2K3 etc.

Little starter, they actually have anim's for outside of battle and such.

Go to my group and download a few and look at them (if you can open them, I might have mucked them up somewhat though), and you will see what I mean, go for the later ones.

Yeah, but they're used differently - ME goes "above" whatever BGM is playing (without letting you hear the BGM underneath), BGS is a layer above ME/BGM but you can still hear the ME/BGM, and SE is just a normal sound effect (I only listed "stop SE" because now you can stop the SE without playing "(OFF)").

It's a minor feature addition, except for the Stop SE one which is rather useless..

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Err, maybe we can discuss how people always try to make non RPG games with RPG Maker for some reason. That's always confused me..

It has me too, like in a blurred line. Don't get me wrong, the game kicks ass and all, but I am stuck in the part where you are the female agency worker, and your stuck in a video game simulation like zelda. I CAN'T GET ANY LEVEL UPS, AND I CAN'T GET ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE 2ND LEVEL!! I would go through the editor and change it up, but I don't want to miss an integral part of this great game. And...yeah. If it wasn't for that, I would give it a 9.5 out of 10. Now, it only recieves a 9 out of 10. So there. And what about the fact that you can't transfer your 2K3 games to XP like you can 2K to 2K3. And I copied your map tutorial for 2K3 into XP, Bluecube, but the map was in the middle of the screen instead of the right side. This is when I realized that there are pixel differences. That really sux.

And what about the fact that you can't transfer your 2K3 games to XP like you can 2K to 2K3. And I copied your map tutorial for 2K3 into XP, Bluecube, but the map was in the middle of the screen instead of the right side. This is when I realized that there are pixel differences. That really sux.

Tiles in RMXP are 32x32. Tiles in RM2k3 are 16x16.

So that's consistant with what you found. If you take 640-(mapsize/2) for the X coordinate and 480-(mapsize/2) for the Y coordinate, it should end up at the lower right.

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But anyway.. err.. Enterbrain is slowly going insane? I guess that's serious discussion as well.

Nice list. First of all, Aurv. I think you may the wrong end of a stick, or I've just mis-interpretted your post. The RMXP tilesets are extremely simple. Wow Blue. The BGS, SE and ME are also in RM2K3 (don't know 'bout 2K), but are just music files full stop. If you import the BGS/SE/ME into RM2K3 and just name them with BGS/SE/ME after them (optional) then they are used in more or less the same way. ---------- Hmm, discuss...something random...animations in RMXP compared to those in 2K3 etc. Little starter, they actually have anim's for outside of battle and such. Go to my group and download a few and look at them (if you can open them, I might have mucked them up somewhat though), and you will see what I mean, go for the later ones.

Hehe I was talking about 2k3 ive never used xp =)
you know whats funny about this discussion, ppl were talking about how better 2k is then 2k3 lol now its how better 2k3 is to xp.... lmfao ,but its some good arguements but 2k3 seems to out wit its enhanced opponent...

Too true.

However, XP does have 4 planes (or is it plains?) which you put things on. Makes it more realistic in, say, forests when you walk behind the tress, yet in front of the one behind the one you're walking behind.

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I don't see the problem with Non-RPG games being made in RPG Makers. I did it all the time with 2K3.

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Discuss..........the lunacy of Ruby scripting etc.

Planes, though I still call 'em layers.. too much screwing around with them though, and you'll end up giving your map "shortcuts" that you can't see..

Discuss..........the lunacy of Ruby scripting etc.

It boggles the mind

Too true. However, XP does have 4 planes (or is it plains?) which you put things on. Makes it more realistic in, say, forests when you walk behind the tress, yet in front of the one behind the one you're walking behind. ---------- I don't see the problem with Non-RPG games being made in RPG Makers. I did it all the time with 2K3. ---------- Discuss..........the lunacy of Ruby scripting etc.

So are there any new commands in XP or is the scripting different all together?