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Posted 2005-11-06, 10:16 PM in reply to Penny_Bags's post "OMG WTF BBQ (a discussion of economics..."
Penny_Bags said:
So are you economically leftist or rightist? Marxist? Reagan....ist? DO TELL!

When studying Marxism over the last 3 months, its critiques, and its supports.... I have discovered that much of what Marx says is true. While I will not get into it, I will stifle a very common attack at the supposed Marxist ways. People that say "Marxism is GREAT in theory, but (here they heave a long sigh).... it can never work" Quite basically, this is not possible to know. Your judgements have been framed in a capitalistic society's influence. What this means, is that your conditioning to be chiefly competitive rather then inclined to communal well being is hindering you from seeing the true possibilities of Marxism.

Marx held a belief in Dialectical Materialism, a concept of how new economic systems come about. A neccesary step along the process of many economic changes on the way to communism is capitalism. Since the countries that have had communism so far in the world have never had a true capitalist system, we simply can not know if the system is "great but will never work".

What drives the change? Well, class struggle. In the final change into communism (after capitalism), classes will have become extinct. If that would be the case, then there would be nothing more to drive the change to new economic systems. We will be left with the final product.

Yes, I am slowly becoming a Marxist, however I am still going to participate in the economy in very capitalistic ways. Why? Well as Marx would say, the system is flawed, and when the system is driven further and further, the change will naturally occur. Self proclaimed anarchaic communists? They are okay I guess if you want to be a pseudo-rebellious teenager, however I am just interested in a prediction of what could be in store for the future of the world. So friends, true communism like the world has never seen could be coming to an America near you! I would say be prepared, but hell, this is not going to happen in our life time.

Any thoughts at all?

I find that a very intelligent post, Penny. I don't know too much about marxism other than what everyone knows, so I may be wrong on certain points. I will say, however, that my economic views lean left. I think that the idea of Marxism is good. I am also one of those people who thinks that in practice it would not work, as evinced by the communist nations that we have seen over the last century. One could argue that the leaders of these communist nations were corrput and dictatorial, and they would have a valid point. Nevertheless, I think that the only way to implement a communist type of economic system without anarchy breaking loose is through a very involved, almost tyrannical government, for the simple reason that communism goes against human nature. We are a very competitive species, and the idea of sharing even simple things must be instilled into our minds from a very young age, otherwise we are extremely posessive about everything. Communism is so counterintuitive to us that I belive we would rebel unless we had a very strict, guiding government. Also, throughout the history of man, there has always been a hierarchical socioeconomic structure. Abolishing this structure, is once again, against human nature. What the repercussions of abolishing the hiearchical society would be, I don't know, but I don't think it would fly too well.

Quote:
while you can argue, people generally do earn their merits. That is the idea of capitalism. Something that would be impossible as a Marxist.
That's all very opinionated. What I consider earning merit may not be what you consider it.
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