No, there's HTML and images involved, too.

Then why not try to find someone else to implement them? I've not had the "my code, noone else can touch" stance for quite some time.

Besides that, from the discussions between Chruser and you, it would seem that Chruser is defering command to me then complaining about it. It's his forums; if he wants to, for example, add adult forums, I'll tell him not to, but there's nothing stopping him from doing it. I'm not going to just stop hosting the forums because I'm not in absoute control.

Good reading. Im actually happy everyone is being mature about this discussion and it has not resorted to flaming. Lets try to work things out here guys. This is still the first and last forum I'll ever contribute a large chunk of post/time to.

Chruser's words were more out of frustration than anything. Chruser would be 'defering command' to you because regardless of what you say, you could stop hosting it at any time. While the adult forum is an easy change, many of the other things are not. You would be the only one capable of installing many things as it stands. These two factors represent something more insidious and fundamental: just knowing that we have to rely on you is an impediment, because nobody can really be sure if you would ever get annoyed enough to cut us off.

What we really need is a fresh start. We most likely would not be able to find someone to implement changes when the forum is currently heavily tied into your own coding. Getting someone to do it from the ground up is different. As long as the server was not hosted by them also, it would prevent the complications present now.

If it could be redone completely from scratch, and hosted elsewhere, I think that would be best. Even if you did the redesign, at least that degree of separation would be more assuring. In my mind, it doesn't even matter who does it or how it gets done, we just NEED that 'new' feeling, and the willingness to try new (even if they seem silly) things.

I give you my word, I would not stop hosting Zelaron unless one of the following conditions occurs:

• I get banned from the community in fact or in effect
• The colocation company gives me a cease and desist notice because of Zelaron, cuts off service because of Zelaron, or charges me extra because of Zelaron
• Pending legal action against me because of Zelaron
• I abandon my webserver altogether

Also, I should note that the forum code base is actually quite agile. All of my code is in plugins except for the users online stuff on the forum home, which the hooks do not exist to alter.

So, CSS, HTML and images. And you've got yourself a forum style? And that's definitely it?

And the basic structure for each style will be the exact same, due to VB plugins and hacks, right?

The only reason I'm asking all of this is because I think it would be interesting if I could give it a try. Obviously don't take this as meaning that there will definitely be a new style sometime soon (I'm extremely busy with school work and the like), but I'd like to give it a shot, even if it's just an experiment.

I think that Lenny could do it. Actually im pretty sure.

No, different styles can be different because there are variables that get inserted into the HTML and you can change where. Also, there are SGML entities that vB interprets as conditionals; for example the postbit relayout for the large avatar is controlled by something like this:
For the most part, though, you don't have to worry about the conditionals if you don't want to. It's fairly easy to figure out why most of them are there and you can just change the HTML arround them.

I've given you style admin on the test board. Please only change stuff in the "Lenny" style.

The manual is here
http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/
You should probably read the "Styles&Templates" section.

Why thank you. :) I look forward to having a tinker with the "Lenny" style.

Can you allow us to change to the Lenny style? And we can make a thread for Lenny to read about what people like or reccomend for his style?

I'm sure it can be arranged.

Perhaps we should open the style creation to the zelaron community? Hold a contest or something.

I didn't read the entire thread, but I can give Grav's statements my support. I've experienced it myself and hate to see what's happening because WW won't do anything.

Link to Lenny's design? Come on you Brit, I know you can complete it in a matter of hours. :P

I probably could, but it's an hour to midnight, I've got an History essay to complete, and a bed to sleep in. :p

Tomorrow I've got a Maths assignment to do, and I want to do a bit of writing and practice my Trumpet, but I should be able to play about with a few things, just to see what happens and familiarise myself with everything. I've also got near enough foue hours of free time during school tomorrow, so, unless I'm playing Pool, I'll come up with a few design ideas.

---

It's an idea. The winner names the style and has it created, etc. I'd be up for making it once I've created my own, unless Chruser or WW do it first.

I personally know that i cannot do it, but i would like to see what the Z community could do.

Ok, so we're getting a new layout. That's cool and all, but what of the other multiple problems that Grav has been discussing?

I've just had a nosy at Grav's AIM logs, and this is what I've picked up (form oldest to most recent, as per Grav's post):

- Guest Posting/Zend ]- vBSEO
- New Style
- Guest Poting
- STore Hack
- Activity Hack... how does it work?
- Portal/vBadvanced
- Blog Function

---

Guest posting has been allowed to some degree - I think that there is a quick sign up feature to allow guests to quickly sign up and post, with the option to fully sign up within twenty-four hours.

New style - well, this is being addressed.

Store hack/Activity hack - first things first, we need to know how the activity hack works. And then we need a Store Hack that is compatible. Are there any members, other than WW, with extensive knowledge of PHP, enough to create their own Store Hack that is compatible with the Activity Hack?

Portal/vBadvanced - I don't know how many have checked WW's test, but what's he doing is done with vBadvanced, and is a portal of types.

Blog function - is it possible to integrate LiveJournal or Myspace blogs on their own Zelaron page, or within a users profile? I quite liked the idea of Users being given their own page (an extensive profile with extras) which was raised a few threads back.

Bring back night vision!

Haha. Good thread.