Unified Race, Utopia or Not?
 

An interesting debate in my opinion has been sparked though another thread.

What do you feel outweighs itself, Having differences is definately important for adding culture to our society; as compared to being a unified race, as K_A says possibly making it impossible for us to be different, or fast forwards a few hundred thousand years where we're all the same race, do you see it as a good thing? Or is Diversity a good thing.


And if you DO feel that a 'Utopian' race is a good thing, what other problems would be created, or solved.

Well, most definately the problem of loss of culture would arise, but only temporarily. There would be only one culture, and the next generations would take it as their own. Eventually, we would be one united race, culture, etc.

I don't mean one country (USA, for example) taking over the world and making everyone change to our culture. I mean everyone losing their culture, to join as one culture. Rather than having individual countries who have their own ideals and agendas, have a single race/nation set on improving humanity, living conditions, etc.

As long as there are differences, there will be conflict. Until there is one unified entity, we're just holding ourselves back unnecessarily. We're not seeing the true potential of the human race.

Differences will always exist, even under a united world government where everyone had the same color of skin. It's an inherent human quality to bicker.

Are you more likely to bicker someone whom you have no sort of connection to or someone who is very much like you?

Conflict would still exist, most certainly, but it would be nothing like what we have right now.

I see this as an interesting point, but even greater, the fact that as it progressed in time, wouldn't it eventually come back to the point of evolution and different areas of this new culture may go off into their own direction and eventually we'd just make a giant loop and culture would start over?

I agree with this half of the story, I would love for our world to improve on Humanity, but there are SO MANY FACTORS in this world that would make this pretty much impossible for anything to happen, atleast in any sort of distant future. Religion is probably the biggest problem, believe it or not, MOST nations and country basically believe in one God or a God, a higher being, but there are variations, which comes back to the point of causing the problem.

So with religion being ruled out, the Language barrier would be the next problem that would have to be solved, and that is being solved before our very eyes, English is going to dominate the world, one way or another. I remember reading somewhere that somewhere around 50% of people in China could speak/write English, which is amazing.

I just don't ever see a Utopia being feesible, atleats in my mindset, not without something Destructive happening to our World/Universe where something so great would happen that we would have to ban together for our own good, something like you'd see in Independance Day.

I guess I just feel that we could still be different, AND move forward, you are right K_A, we do have very very very great potential and have ONLY begun to unlock just the tiniest percentage of what we are capable of, but the real question is if we can be different and move forward or not, and I believe that we can.

Well, neither, but I think I get the gist of what you're saying.

My argument, however, is that those changes will be purely superficial. There will be plenty of other issues we will find to bicker over. Such as the length of an angel's wing. And it will be just as brutal as it is now. Assuming that human nature hasn't changed entirely, which is possible. But biology as we know it would not select for those characters.

Even with someone who is genetically no different from you and is raised in practically the same environment you will bicker. For instance, take identical twins.

We are programmed to bicker.

That is an individual and an individual though. The bickering between an individual and an individual is mostly harmless, anyway. When you take a very large group of people and it starts bickering with another very large group of people, that's when the conflict gets serious.

Ahh, I see what you mean.

Well, under your premise I suppose we may attain temporary peace when everyone agrees with each other. How we would get to that point, I don't know. However, if we do get to that point I forsee a rapid divergence and we once again slump back into our little groups that fight amongst each other.

Well arguments are just trying to findout who/what is right.

In the individuals sense, arguments are not really a bad thing. If it weren't for arguments, we'd never have gotten anywhere, as far as science is concerned. If the original scientists hadn't argued with each other they would have never known what was right.

However, as a great man once said, "War does not determine who is right, it determines who is left."

Arguments over things such as race and religion do not serve humanity in any good way at all, and thus need to be eliminated if we ever hope to show the true potential of the human race. One way to eliminate such arguments is to eliminate what the arguments are over.

Most wars, as far as I know, are over religion or land. If there's one unified group, there's absolutely no need to go to war with another country to take their land, as such a thing would not be possible if there were not another country.

Then there are things lesser than wars, such as racism and discrimination based on many factors such as race, religion, sex, etc. They might not be as serious as war, but they are not as simple as an argument between two people. They would equally be eliminated if there were not such differences.

Very true, though I am still a believer in God and a higher being essence, and until that is proven wrong, myself and billions of other people are probably never going to change :(

I added some more to my post, by the way.

And do remember, I'm talking about forced change, not us asking you to stop believing what you believe.

I'm talking, strip your identity, and if you resist or fight, you get eliminated. At that point, you don't matter any more.

It would most definately be a very rough time, but in the long run it would be benificial.

I am all for world peace and such, but I do not feel that a utopian, single-government society is possible with our race without substantial mental conditioning from birth and possibly even genetic manipulation. There would be many who would resist having this done to their children, and would either have to be eliminated or brainwashed. Much of the populace would resist if any of this had been carried out in secret, the genocide that would ensue wouldn't leave much left, and you'd have many people left who simply lacked the will to fight, and would leave not a utopian society, but the remainder of the world populace cowering in fear of an all-powerful regime. It's exactly the same that happens when a populace is conquered!

A forced utopia will NEVER be a utopia, it will simply end up being what you tend to recognize as modern Communism, as ideal Communism was a utopian society, which never occurred. The only way to get a utopian society is through the united efforts of every person involved with a 100% desire to make it work, which will never really work with humans as we are honestly too contrary to commit to our fellow man in that way. There are many people who would simply refuse because that's just the way they are or someone already involved is someone that they simply dislike for some reason.

Ignorance, greed, and pride are the biggest reasons why this would never work. Ignorance is very difficult to combat, and greed/pride are often parts of human nature because we've been programmed to survive in a competitive environment for millions of years. The only way to combat these are strict behavioral conditioning from a VERY early age, which would be essentially Brainwashing the young into this (an excellent reference for something similar would be the book The Giver), and would be very easily undone if they were allowed contact with the non-conforming Outside.

One could also argue that without true conflict, research could be stunted. There are many things that were researched and developed for War use that have benefitted the public well, especially in the Medical field. War is a terrible thing, but there are things we have access to now that we wouldn't have had if it weren't for our violent nature, heh.

Good book, by the way.

Perhaps it wouldn't need to seem forced. Say, give people the option of leaving the society to go somewhere else. The falce option. A guise, per-say. When they get on your plane to go somewhere else, you eliminate them. Nobody knows any better.

True, but thats wrong.

Once race would solve alot of our problems and bring humanity to a whole new level. Kind of like a colony of ants.

Ignorance isn't hard to combat. Stupidity is. You can always teach people. It's the people that don't learn that must be eliminated.

The world needs a breeding system put into effect really.

The only downfall to a Utopian world is that itself. If your whole life everything was great and you had everything you wanted at your finger tips what would be the point. It would be boring. I don't know the meaning of life but I'm sure that would elimate whatever it is. Thats the same reason Heaven is an absured notion.

Sure we could achiever great heights and perhaps find out all about our creators and ancestors as I like to think, but then again do we really want to? Would it be all that great, it could be a huge let down. Or it could answer every question ever.

There is no universal "right" or "wrong." What's right to you might be wrong to me. It's relative to your own beliefs.

If you mean "in my opinion that's wrong" then I take it back.

It would be discovered, and it likely wouldn't even take that long for it to happen. Any utopia built in a genocidal manner is never an option. At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, that is PRECISELY what Hitler's mission was aiming to accomplish, with very similar methodology.

As I said, you will never have a utopia without the full consent and open government operation or distrust will brew. Distrust is the first step on the way to hate and strife.

We'll be having genetically modified people, cyborgs, etc. soon enough. That should ad to the mix =D.

Only to a limited degree, I believe.

Even then, it's going to be 25-50 years from now before we see anything major like that.