the bible
 

ok, so many of you guys say the bible is crap, it's not real, it contradicts it self. Well the words in the bible were inspired by god, and the message it gives us can grant us eternal life!

What i'm basically saying is, i found out a few answers to what people mostly think of the bible, i'll start with 1 and you guys can ask any other things you may like, i'll answer as best as i can using the bible it' self.

#1 The bible was written by men.
well yeah, that's true, infact. 40 different men participated in it's writting, but it was inspired by god.

What does that mean? it means that god directed the writings of it through the 40 participants, like the same way a boss of a big company, tells his secretary to write things down for a letter, sure, the secretary wrote the letter, but it's the boss' thoughts that are in it.

The idea of receiving messages from someone who's there, out of our reach, is something that's not surprising, even humans have sent messages and images from the moon. How? Taking advantage of the laws that god himself established oh so long ago.

But, how can we be sure that the bible has god's real thoughts in it?
Well, it contains information that could no have originated from a human source. What kind you may ask? Detailed information about the future, and this information has resulted to be completly exact.

for example, in jeremia, 49:17, 18: (i can't translate well so i'll just put the basics here), it says that edom was going to be point of humiliation. All who would go past her, would stare, and whistle with motive of all its' plagues, justily, like the fall of sodoma and gomorra and it's neighboring villages, Jehova has said:" no man shall live there ever again"(this was writen and completed by the year 580 B.C.)

when it came true: judas macabeo(lol) got rid of the edomitas from palestine in the age 2 B.c (siglo=age...um not sure)and in 109 B.C john hircano, caudile macabeo, exteded teh kingdom of judas to thepoint of incluing part of the occidental lands of edomitas.

IN the age 1 Bc the roman expansion ended with the last vestigios of the independence of edomitas. Later on the romans destroyed JErusalen in 70 AD
the name Idumea[edom] disappeared from history (the new funk and wagnalls encyclopedia, 1952, tome 11, page 4114)

NOTE: the coming true of this extends until OUR days. In any matter it is impossible to argue that the profecy had been written AFTER these events occured.


like i said, i'll try to answer anythign else you might throw at me, WOW i did WAY to much research, lazy time for 5 hours now......oh and since i did so much work using good grammar
I WANT MY COOKIE.

That's dandy. Too bad Christians don't follow the teachings of it though.

Trivia: God killed thousands more people in the Bible than Satan.

you...you actually READ the whole thing???
oh and, god had a reason, those people disobediently went against him, they deserved to die.

The fact that he just annihilated thousands of his children in a fit of pique that they weren't following his every order to the letter doesn't register as mildly disturbing to you? Why would he give us Free Will if we were meant to be slavishly adhering to his orders and living only to exist in his glory?

We should lobby for a Theological Social Services imo, maybe get taken to a foster universe.

cuase HE created US, we dont 'even deserve to be alive, so if someone created you, you wuld gain power over that person and make that person your equal? lol, that doesn't make sense, the children did now die for not listening, they died becuase of the parents, what parents do or did agaisnt god, are completely related to the children, bad parents, the parensts generation must die as well.
it's a symbolic sentence, which is actually pretty hard to understand XD

I don't know, if we're created in his image and given free will to think with, it sounds more like god wanted companionship, which implies a level of respect and equality.

Then again, he may have tried to make us to slavishly adhere to his Word and live in his glory like his angels. You should check out how well that worked out. ;)

I would rather read everything that people wrote that was inspired by god then what the catholic church says i should read. By them not allowing us to read every single writing that has ever been created and inspired by god, it makes our religion feel like a secret society. But thats just me. I still go to a catholic college and went to a catholic highschool and read the bible twice

well you have to take in mind the simple and most important question here,
HE created US, it's like a father with a children, thanks to mom and dad, sonny boy was born, now sonny born was his parents to treat him as an equal, and not put any law over him becuase they're both human!
hmm...that doesnt make sense to me, i think the son should do what ever the father tells him to, because his father, until the boy is an adult, has control over him, and slowly gives him more freedom as he grows up,it's the same as with us, HE created us and now we want to be his equal? that makes no sense, he gave us free will, and all he asks us to do is to follow his simple commands, the point is that with all the things this world offers, it's kinda hard to follow his words.
But the main point is, he created us because he wanted to give life to us, and now we want him to lower him self to our status, LOL he doesn't even needed to create us in the first place, he could have us like animals living by instinct having sex, and hunting for food like a savage beast, but he didn't do that, since god is love, he gave us the chance to live our life, of ofcourse showing alittle gratitud to him.

And the celestial war that ocurred in 1914 (same as the 1st world war) was all because at the beginning of everything, 1 angel (satan, lucifer, how ever you wanna call him, its' the same loser)
was jealous of gods power, and got envious, and asked, why dont' I have power? why can't i govern over all the angels but he does? the answer is simple, god created jesus, then he created all the angels and that included satan, satans rebelious intent, and selfishly looking for power, decided to well, rebel against god, and made adan's wife(eve) eat of the tree that god told them not too, which in personally i think that's a pretty easy concept, god goes:"you can eat anything from any tree and sleep and w/e you want, but you must not eat this tree, this lone tree"
i mean there's like millions of trees in the world, and you just HAd to eat the one he told you not too? (lol).
Thanks to that selfish impulse, god symbolicly condemned the serpet(refering to satan) and then made man live on earth, working for his food and his survival, and to live with his sin till the day he died, and that's how the story of the bible begins, and so on.

i'll also be posting WHy people think the bible contradicts it self later on, if you find that interesting just pm me and i'll post it.

What about evolution?

ah yes, evolution, the scientific way the human race was created.
Ok, here's the bible explanation to evolution, 1st and most importantly, evolution is not real, here's why.

The scientific method is the following: observe, form a hypothesis based on observation, test the theory through aditional observations, experimentsd, and watch to see if the predictions come true. Is that the method that those who believe in evolution follow and teach?

the astronomer Robert Jastrow says: for personal reason, [scientists]
don't have a clear answer, becuase the chemicals have never been able to succesfully reproduce experiments from nature over the creation of life from inanimated matter. The scientists don't know how evolution really happened.
(The enchanted loom: mind in the universe, newyork, 1981, page 19.)

The evolutionists Loren Eiseley accepted the following fact: "After straighting out the teologics for trusting mith and miracles, science has found it self in a envidous position of having to create it's own mithology: to know, the suposition of what is beind of many hard ships, could not have been proved, that what happened now, in reality, could have taken place in the primitive land.(the immense journey NY,1957, page 199)

according to the magazine NEW SCIENTIST: "an increasing amount of sceintists and most particularly an increased number of evolutionists [...]
present the argument of the theory of evolution of darviniana, is not genuinly a scientific theory [...] Many of the critics have the most elevated intelectual credentials" (june 25 1981 page 828)

The physics master (or teacher i can't remember) H. S. Lipson said: "The only explication acceptable is creation. I know that this is anatheme for the physic (people w/e i can't rmember how to translate it) like in fact it is for me, but we can't ignore the theory that we don't like, if the experimental proof supports it. (physics bulleting, 1980, Vol. 31, page 138)
hope that answers some questions, i still got more info waiting!.

In Science, unlike religion, twenty years can pass and thinking can change dramatically. If you are going to give uotes and what not, at least gives us quotes from the past couple of years, not 1981, 1980 or 1957.

Oh, and I have to say: This thread does not deliver.

Once again you've demonstrated the undeniable: You're an idiot!

I mean I'm a christian, but I also believe the Bible is basically stories we should use and gain wisdom from to better our lives. The Bible as well as Scientists contradict themselves, I don't really know what to believe anymore.

Well, scientists contradict each other. And in light of new evidence a new theory may become the accepted paradigm. However, that is nothing compared to the internal inconsistencies of the Bible, along with it's blatant misrepresentation of scientific fact.

And the Bible is a pernicious source for wisdom or ethics. Those that seek to gain either from the Bible have either not read the Bible, are wicked, are self-deluding, or a combination of the three.

MJ spares no christian!

what? you expect me to get some kind of imaginary information from 2000-2007? if in these recent years there's been no info about the bible and evolution what do you want me to do? make it up? and as for somethings the bible does not contradict it self, ok?

sure i've heard lots of people say that the bible contradicts it self, but i've read it countless of times, and i've never really found any contradiction, what i have found is that either people mistake, the bibles symbolism and that the bible leaves questions that remain kinda, unanswered, for example:
Where did cain obtain his wife? the only humans were adam,eve, ebel, (which cain killed) and cain himself, and if those were the only humans at the time, where did cain get a wife? the point is that the bible only focuses on important facts of life, because, Who really cares if cain had a wife or not? that has nothing to do with the message the bible gives and such it is not written in the bible.

IF you say (MJ) that the bible has blatant misinterpretations of scientific facts, that is probably because, the bible doesn't focus on science, but when it talks about it, it's perfectly accurate, for example:

in Isaias (spanish-english translation i realy suck at that) 40:22: it says
"There's one that lives on the circle of the earth"(once again bad translation methods) in the time the bible was written, the idea of the earth was, that it was flat, it wasn't until over 200 years later that a group of greek astronomers made a conclusion that the earth was probably sphere-like, and after over 300 years 1 greek astronomer calculated the aproximate ratio of the earth. But not even by those times, was the idea of earth sphere-like, people kept thinking it was flat, only in our times, has in NOW, when humans created air planes, and the oh so famous air ship, and a man went to the moon and THEN when he saw the world being like a giant ball, THEN only then humans got the idea, oh look, it IS round like a ball!!! and hundreds and hundreds of years ago, the bible said so omfg!.

There has been.

It does.

First inconsistency I find with the Old Testament:

Please tell me chronologically how the world was created.

First inconsistency in the New Testament:

Please tell me how many generations from Jesus to Abraham.



I just pointed out two from the first pages of their respective sections.

Genealogies are important?!

Even better, pleasing a megalomaniacal God by worshiping only him is important to human life?

Moby Dick makes some pretty accurate statements too.

Self-owned.

"The God of the old testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all of fiction. Jealous and proud of it. A petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak. A vindictive, blood-thirsty ethnic cleanser. A misogynistic, racist, homophobic, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

-Richard Dawkins

i love this quote

kyeruu, this was a bad subject to bring here. I believe the Bible to be true, but I'll keep out of this. You all will try to brainwash me into your beliefs/nonbeliefs instead of letting me keep mine.


Well, the Old Testament God was a pretty mean guy. You'd be pissed too if your chosen people kept on fucking up and making other false gods. Wouldn't agree with that biased quote though.

I think it's more like we'll tell you your beliefs are wrong rather than try to make you believe ours. I personally think the more you try to make someone believe something, the less they will ever believe it. You shouldn't have to make someone believe something if it's right and you've got something to back it up.

Hell, I don't know that anyone is right or wrong these days. Even after just a little bit of research on a few different religions, it seems like the Christians pretty much just stole all of their shit from other people and labeled it as the bible. Confucius is the one who first said the "golden rule," as far as I know.

All of the similarities between religions make me ponder whether or not everyone is a little bit right. The problem is, a lot of times people have their own personal agendas that they mix into religion. For instance, hating of homosexuals/people of color. If a "God" made homosexuals and people of color, I see no reason why he would want us to hate them.

Take Christians, for example. 90% of Christians these days don't even know what the fuck the bible is trying to say to them, they just interpret it in ways that fit their own agendas. Any Christian that supported or supports the war in Iraq is a good example of this. Jesus himself preached "turn the other cheek." When your enemy attacks you, you don't respond by attacking back, you turn the other cheek. Otherwise you're just fanning the flames. Any Christian that supports the war is going completely against the teachings of Jesus, whether or not he was the son of God.

I personally don't think anyone has it quite right, yet. I don't think humans can ever really reach that point with religion, because people will always be biased and fit their religion to their own personal beliefs. Honestly, if I HAD to pick someone who has it right right now, it would probably be Buddhists. I don't practice it myself, yet, and I'm not sure that I ever will, but I've learned more about living a good life from learning about Buddhism than I ever did from Christianity. Buddhism is a much much more personal religion. Buddha himself taught that you should never accept a teaching that you can't verify yourself with personal experience, and that until you know yourself, you can never know anything else.

If you don't know about Buddhism or the teachings of Buddha, I would highly suggest you do a bit of reading about it, even if you're a completely different religion, there's a lot to be gained just from learning what this guy had to say. He was truly wise.

Edited by !King_Amazon!

I would just like to add, not just Buddhism, but eastern religions in general seem to have the right idea. In my opinion, they are vastly superior to the religions we're all familiar with.

That's not what we're trying to do, however would that really be such a bad thing?

Not pissed off enough to commit the attrocities he created.

Christopher Hitchens seems to have done away with that fallacy, at least in my mind.

How do you mean? Care to elaborate?

Well, not at the moment. I'm only on the computer for 2 or 3 more minutes. I reccomend checking out God is not Great: How Religion Posions Everything by Hitchens.

Sounds almost, anti-christ

You're a walking bibliography!

Hitchens isn't original. Recently there's been a surge of such books. 2005 there was Harris, the first big anti-religion book in this day and age. 2006 we had Harris again, and Dawkins (the best one in my opinion) as well. Hitchens came out this year. Of course before Harris there was Smith, and then there were the big names like B. Russel, Huxley, Hume, Spinoza, etc. That isn't even getting into the ancient Greeks. I haven't read the Smith book or anything by Huxley, Hume and Spinoza. I've only read one book by Russel. Hitchens isn't the anti-christ by any means. He's just continuing what was started a long time ago.

Considering the enormous number of books I have not read, I don't deserve such an honor. Even sarcastically.

hello, mj, DUH! god created everything, that's the whole point of all that you quoted from the bible, the bible never really explains the whole, "god created everything" but the bible proves that god's words are in it. Also the only reason your looking for this pathetic play of words, is to confuse me and make me doubt in my beliefs, which in reality you know i'm speaking the truth, because you haven't quoted things that i spoke earlier about this, like the bible being inspired by god.

Your not quoting that, and saying it's false, because you know it's true, and if you said something, you'd be shutting your self up. and as for your quote about, the bible, um....yeah, not trying to tell you your a pathetic idiot, but you kinda are by quoting that, god can create earth because he has the power to, science kinda doesn't go along with that, science has nothing to do with someone creating something from nothing, the point of creating something from absolutely nothing, that's what people call magic?

but since magic doesn't exist, it must be gods power, Duh.!

another thing, (ima post this in ajiffy)

This is an ENGLISH SPEAKING FORUM!

also you said something about the bible contradicting it self in the birth of jesus, first in the 4th year then in the 6th year, i mean wtf is that? that's a dirty lie! here's why:

Daniel 9:25 says a profecy about 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week, which is the information god gave, so that it would be known when the mesaia would be known, so.

Daniel indicates how much time has passed since the moment till the mesaia would come. The profecy says: 7 weeks, and 62 weeks, which is total of 69 weeks. how much time would this pass by? like many versions of the bible indicate, it's not talking about literal weeks (see there? symbolism^^) but actually years. In other words every week would correspond to 7 years.(seven weeks 7 years dont' misunderstand) the people of that time knew very weel this idea of weeks being years, for example they would celebrate 1 year being as a saturday, after 6 years passed.

so in other words, the 69 weeks of the profecy are equivalent to 69 groups of the 7 years, or better yet a total of 483 years.

Now it's only about math, if you cound 483 years since 455 B,c. you reach the year 29 of A.D precisely the year that jesus was baptised and became the mesaia. Now the bible also says that Jesus was 30 years old when he was baptised, an di fhe was baptised at the year 29, what do you think happens then? it's so obvious! 30-29=1 (duh) so Jesus was born in the year 1, where do you get this crap about year 4 and year 6? and if people say he was born in christmas, that's abother blatant and pathetic lie.

The bible says that when jesus was born ( you know when you see the profecies, if you even care to read the context they're written in so you wont' make stupid questions later) it says that there were sheeps, and they're owners out and about, if you look at the place jesus was born, during christmas it's when it rains, heavily, so isn't it stupid that a bunch o fpeople would be out in the rain with sheep? YES, so if the bible says jesus was born when there were sheep and their owners out, that means that he couldn't have been born in christmas, other wise there'd be rain, AND dont say i made that up because i already explained the bible was inspired by god. OK?!

It's friday. I suppose I can cut myself some slack and make a real post. Lets go through this piece by piece.

You can't simply decree by fiat what is and is not inspired by an alleged God. Christian apologists fail to realize it, but this statement needs proof in itself. It is not self-evident.

Once again, there is no evidence for this. If the Bible was inspired by God, why does it unrecognizably mutilate historical and scientific fact.

Through what proposed means would he have accomplished this? Did he show himself to some prophets? If so, why were they selected instead of the regular man. Was it through voices and revelations people received? If so, how is this distinguishable from common psychosis?

Exactly! Everything we do is based on the laws of the universe. Your book, however, claims to bend some of these laws. It is no plausible.

It may have some things right. However, it provides us with countless unfulfilled prophecies, lies, gore, fallacies, and wickedness as well.

I honestly tried to decipher this. I can't.

So your parents should have the right to kill you?

I can't possibly comprehend why someone would choose to believe in something that's completely unsubstantiated and repudiated by fact that also tells him he is worthless and does not deserve to be alive. You have to be masochistic to believe in that complete, utter, rancid, festering crap.

You can't foresee a time when AI surpasses human intelligence?

Again, this is cause for moral outrage. My sins are vicarious? Bull shit. I'm not responsible for anything my parents did, especially before my conception. Fuck anyone who holds you responsible for the deeds of someone else. That includes your vile God.

This should be completely acceptable when "sonny boy" makes more practical, scientific, and moral sense than mommy and daddy.

Four of his commands revolve around his glorification. This character is dripping with arrogance. Even if I did believe in God, I would not worship the nefarious, child-murdering, conceited, fickle maniac.

WHAT?! I don't want him to lower himself to our status. I want you, and the rest of that fabricated psychopath's fan club to acknowledge his non-existence.

That was the infancy of our species.

As for your post on evolution, first of all those quotes are grossly outdated. Secondly, science does not revolve around any sort of authority. It revolves around the facts. Makes most of that post rather irrelevant.

I didn't know such a phenomenon as selective reading existed.

A circle IS flat. And here's more of what the bible says:

Ancient cultures had calculated the world was spherical before the Bible existed.

I quoted it because it is clearly an incorrect account of the world's creation, therefore it is false, fictional, not real.

LEARN TO MAKE SENSE Fucking idiot.

And as for the rest of that post, read about quantum fluctuations.

But of course you can't reconcile the birth during King Herod's era and during the era of Caesar Augustus's levied tax, can you?

Hardly, however we're going to fight back if someone's going to be attempting to ram their beliefs down our throats.

Guess which side does that the most? ;)

MJ are you stupid or what? you said you didn't understand ANYthing about the proof of god saying something from the future, well that's because your brain is too high up in that freaking place you call earth, but it's actually filled with the thoughts of satan, trying ot make you think other wise. And the thign about the 4 corners of the earth? ITS FUCKING SYMBOLISM!!! DONT' YOU GET THAT? THE BIBLE SAYS THINGS LITERAllY AND SYMBPLICAlLy, YOUR PATHETIC ATTEMPT AT UNDERSTANDINNG THESE THINGS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOUR pathethic and idiotic comprehention of the bible is what makes you NOT Understand everything i've said.

if you would read the context the words are written in, then yeah maybe you would understand, but i can't expect someone who was raised in a mundane family, followed by fake teachings, such as catholics, evangelism, buddha's, even aetheists, which aren't really teaching anything about the bible they jsut go against the whole bible thingy, and was is really really pissing me off right now, is the fact that, you bastards believe such lies!!!!

you think, no noone created us, we were created from a huge explotion of matter that (by some crazy sense i don't understand but since i dont 'believe in teh bible i/'ll go with it) and the world was magically created
in a instant
with tree/s and us being monkeys
and someone evolving and such
oh come fucking on how can you believe such crap? atleast when i say something about the bible, you know, i use things that make sense!!! now some useless crap you THINK happened, and if you don't understand and you can't decipher what i just said? about the whole future revealing thing, maybe you should go to alibrary and read a book, you know? not the internet, cuase the internet is full of made up lies, a book is not changed you coudl find usefull info there, go waste some of your precious time corabolating what i said and make yoru sel flook stupid cauuse you jsut can't believe the fact tha god exists, you know it's true and you won't admit it, that's how deep satan has seeped into your heart, and that's how much effort you'll never put into taking him out. when armaggedon comes, then only then will you truly see and realize that you were wrong all along, and such you will die along with allt he other non believers out there. Just like things are meant to be done.

1. Your invisible friend can create your universe and that's fine, but a volatile section of compressed matter can't expand outwards because that's unbelievable?

2. The world wasn't created in an instant in the Big Bang method, it took billions of years, you twit. Your invisible friend is the one who "created it instantly" against all evidence pointing otherwise.

3. The bible has been changed many times, especially when translated from its original Latin to English. Don't be dense.

4. If Satan is the alternative to the Old Testament god, sign me up with hell. I'd be glad to serve anyone opposing that monstrosity.

/sigh

You're a moron that believes in fairy tales. And you can't speak English. That's a double-whammy.

You should probably take a science class. And an English class.

You can begin in the evolution thread a few spots down.

I'm not shifting through your indecipherable drivel. Make it legible, and I'll read it.

You're a goddamn Jehovah's Witness, aren't you? My god, so that means you follow a cultish version of Christianity as well as use faulty translations for your bible. So why are you a Russelite?

Also, God is a sadist.

first and most importantly, jeho'va witneses dont' follow any cultish version of christianity, they follow the real way, and second and furthermore, i freakign give up, it'shard trying ot get logicn into a hard headed skull, this started out as any regular opinion and debate, people giving opinions and and debating upon certain informatin and such, this went from a O and D to a slap fest of pure argument over difference in beliefs, i am not going to participate in this any more, believe what you want, it was fun talking a little inteligent for awhile, back to my usual, spamming, time wasting, screw around all i like, self.

I bet your all so happy i'm going back to the chatterbox, tsk tsk tsk.

and as a last thing, god killed thousands of people because they thought they could go against him, defied his law, and went to side with satan, they sdeserved to die anyhow.

If you want me to stop sniping and discuss this rationally, I will. The only thing I ask is that you reply legibly. Decipherably. I don't mind typos or an occasional grammatical mistake, however I honestly can't make sense of what you type and that is more frustrating than anything, especially if you want to have a logical conversation. I don't particularly care how you type in the chat forum, but if you want me to keep it above a childish level then type at a level higher than a child.