Question: How did the universe begin?
 

I want your personal theory on this. Did god create the universe? Was there something else. Has it always been here? State which side you're taking (i.e. scientific, theological etc.) and try to support it as best you can. Lets try to not turn this into a debate. If you want to comment on someone elses theory, fine, but try to keep this thread from turning into an all-out debate about religion.

So, what do you think?

I really have no idea, but I lean towards the scientific view. I mean, there IS the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" law that religion will always bring up, but if that's the case what could have created god?

Anyway, I'd say the big bang.

Sorry, I worded it wrong. For you scientific believers, how was the universe put into play before the big bang? And try to expand a bit, if you can, Slim. I'd like to hear everyone's ideas.

I honestly have no idea, I'm not knowledgeable enough in the area to make any comment without it being pulled straight from my ass.

I'd have to go on a religious note. Put it this way. God has always existed, nobody created him/her. But it's always been there. Now God has the power to create, and give. God's powers must have created the universe. Not too sure how it works.

This could just be a Matrix type thing, we're just one big ass test tube, and somebody is having us for their science project.

I've thought about that. We'll never really know. I believe in God. He's always been there. Nothings going to change my mind about that. All the stories about him have been proved in a way. Through the bible, and there was older history that the same exact events that were in the bible, were recorded in a journal/book. I believe in God 110%. Whenever I pray, it always comes true.


ALWAYS.

Bottom line is:















GOD IS REAL, EVEN IF U CANT SEE HIM

God is the Alpha and Omega; beginning and end. He has always been there. Created the world in 6 24 hour days, and rested on the 7th day. He saw that everything was good. The world has only been around for roughly 8,000 to 10,000 years. Just look at the world around you. How could a spontaneous combustion from a tiny dot form all of this coincidentally like it is? God made the world beautiful. The world used to be one continent, but then God wiped out everyone on the earth with the flood except for Noah and his family on his ark. This happening, the lands were split apart and formed as they are. Yay God!

Yeah, don't tell me this is random bullshit, because it isn't. Don't insult me, I will return the favor.

Dude, it's not bullshit one bit. I like your words. :)

Wow, I always thought that everybody here was either atheist or christians who dont really believe in god completely. Hand of heaven and tokill.ace and d3v, I have just created a newfound respect toward you. I too believe that god exists and always has, I would be lying if I never was sceptical, but I think that there's no way we'll ever prove how it all started, so all I have is to believe.

I like all of your responses so far. I just have one request. Perhaps expanding on why you believe as you do, if at all possible.

Why not believe? Believing is the only thing I do. I believe in God because..well because hes God. Why not believe in him? I've already "been" to heaven in my dream. I saw him alive, and I believe from there. He's REAL. He's given people life. The only thing you can do is to respect, believe, and pray. Don't do sins. God, just saying that makes me think of soo many things. All the things have to do with believing though. Believe is the only thing that my mind likes. It makes it up. It has fun. It's the only thing that YOU can depend on.



Dunno if that made sense to anybody?

Sort of brought up with it, but in catechism class last year, we studied other religions. Most 'Christian' doctrines teach that God created the world, and I cannot see how a small dot exploded into something as vast as the universe. And how everything fell in so perfectly, it seems like nonsense to say that it all just appeared. Read several sections of the bible, and I believe it. It said in Genesis that the spirit of the Lord (Holy Ghost/Spirit) was hovering over some murky matter, and began to mold and shape it into the earth. With his Word, God created something out of nothing, a feat we still have to overcome. In the beginning was the heavens and the earth. Lucifer corrupted some other angels and fell(was sent) to hell. I would go on, but I don't want to be excessive.

I belive that the universe is expanding exponetally(sp?) to a point were it will start contracting again and start over with another big bang.

"Days" in the Biblical sense, weren't 24 hours.

The bible is shit, I don't believe anything in it, it's just a book that has been changed by so many people in the past.

My personal belief is both religious and scientific. I believe in the big bang, but something had to start it. There has to be some sort of supreme being(God, whatever).

What do you guys mean "big bang". Sure call me a dumbass, but let me know first. Never heard that.

I believe in the possible existence, or former existence of God.

I lean more towards the Big Bang Theory, and rationalize that God created the mass/energy that caused it all to begin with. The Universe is expanding, and there is the distinct possibility that our Universe is not the only one in the void of space. We may never truly know.

As to the question of how God came into existence (if He truly exists), the answer is unfathomable to us, as He cannot have always existed, nor can He have "willed" Himself into existence, as there would have been no "existence" without His creating it.

I digress. I would go on about this subject, but that is not the intention of this thread.

It began with jellyfish.

The bible is a book of fiction written by man.

As far as creation hypotheses go I lean towards the evolutionary side of the house. Yes the universe is expanding and I do believe there is dark matter in the universe. I don’t know and couldn’t fathom to speculate what existed prior to the big bang. Our current set of physics and mathematics are not adequate to construct a solid explanation of the creation of the universe.

Well I've had my thread on Evolution, but it was quite racist, and spammed to hell. It was that African americans evolved from monkeys, and Caucasians evolved from Cavemen. But that's just a joke :D.

I'm Kind of on K_A's side. I mean, I believe that our universe could have just existed forever, but something needs to get it going. Our GOD, who may have been one of us at one point, enlightened beyond anything spiritual or mental. Not sure. It really makes my head hurt to think about all of the possibilities/variables. But I do believe in GOD, and My guess is that he/she started it all off at one point in time. Getting the ball rolling, creating earth with his/her mind/intellegence and we have naturally evolved from that point.

It has something to do with the m theory. It states that time existed before the creation of the universe and that we are just one universe of a multiverse. I saw it on the discovery chanlle. It requires the existance of I believe 11 dimensional space.

Discovery channel *sigh*. Why do you even watch that program?

Why wouldnt I. And actually it was the Science chan.

That and TLC own.

Heh. I was just reading up on the M theory myself, yesterday. Couldn't quite understand much of it, though. :confused:

Discovery Channel is the shit, that's why.

Link me. It's something I know so little about but want to learn :(.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1270726.stm
http://superstringtheory.com/cosmo/cosmo4.html (string theory)

There were more. I'll see if I can find them for you.

I personally am very christian and believe strongly in god. I have never abandoned science though so i do think there are some possible scientific explanations.

Time is a circuit - Since its always so difficult to comprehend i think that the best way of explaning it is as a single image. To me its in the shape of a donut (or a ring i guess). Where do you find the end of a ring? If u travel in a circle, where does it end? Many people think that there has always been something. In this case, maybe the end of the universe merely fades into the beginning.I think that maybe time is somethign that just doesnt stop and go its a never ending track that we all have our own lanes in.

I'm sure i got more ideas up in my head......but I'm busy with my Grade 11 history hw for IB. Fucking stupid IB...... :killgrin:

How did the donut come into existence?

I guess this "donut" theory is more of how things occur after time was set in motion. I'll give you the heads up when i figure it all out though:rolleyes:

wow, an actuall intelligent conversation without constant flaming and diverse ideas.. never thought id see that here

the people here are smart but are just lazy. Its easier to flame than it is to think intelligently.

This is the first of a series of posts by me that will make all of you think about what you have said.

D3v... who's to say that the universe has always existed? If God has always existed, why couldn't the universe always exist. How can you even prove existence outside of your own thoughts? You can't. Sure, you think therefor you are... but maybe that existence is only based in one area... your own "head"... so to speak. But who created you?... God? What created God? If god always existed couldnt the universe have done the same? And thus, an eternal cycle... infinity...

And the "Giant" test tube could be comparitavely small to everything else... maybe we are in a test tube in side of a test tube inside of a test tube... and so on and so forth.

Your final statement is an opinion. How do you know that there aren't 256 Gods?

Don't lie. There is only one for each of the Primary Colors. The Seconday Colors are their half-human offspring, and as such, mere Demi-Gods, since they're all female Goddesses.

Like the Fanta girls.

http://www.realmproductions.com/Imag...lery/fanta.jpg

That commercial would be so much better without the horrid background music.

But I digress. Back to the topic at hand.

I agree with volls here. It all had to start with God, he had to create something that could make the Big Bang. He could have chosen that the Big Bang was how the world would start.


==Nit5u4==, stop spamming shit please.

Sorry bout the double, ie is just fucking around with me today.

all things left to themselves unless acted on by an outside force will tend towards chaos.
our universe is orderly, there was a chaos theory but it has basically been disproven. even evolution proves this. for those who dont know, following through with evolution all the way, Darwin concluded the latter part of his life a Christian, sighting the eyeball as an example that with all that is necessary and orderly to have evolution allow this eye to work, to believe there is no God is 'obsurd to the highest degree'

the universe, being orderly, must be acted on by an outside force to maintain this characteristic.
so now you have the equation with our universe and it requires the presence of something outside out universe acting on it.
in the most basic definition, we call this God.
God must have a will, because without logic, order is an impossibility.

the universe, encompassing time must have a beginning to exist. time as a concept exists within our universe, however beyond that, time, coming existing within, does not apply.
this is why God's existance need not have a begginning.

human beings, being within this universe and always having been subject to time are unable to fathom something existing without a beginning, to us (because we are temporal beings) a beginning is a must, a staple of existance, and a truth.

despite being unable to fathome such a concept as existing without a beginning, the fact that if something exists outside the universe and hence not subject to the constraints of time is not only possible, but given that something DOES exist outside the universe, it is also true.

there is no reason why people presenting the question of the universe's beginning must seperate science and religion. the two go hand in hand really. everything science proves supports the religious belief in God. what doesnt support it if you are really seeking the real truth, you will find are half way facts.
these are hypothese, equations, and theorums that are people only take as far as to prove information they have already decided on and need proof of rather than taking it all the way to see what it is telling them, usually a sign of arrogance or fear. people get wrapped up in trying to tell rather than listen.
so anyway, this is what ive found so far.
i dont like opinions much that's why i didnt involve my personal religion, just the facts backing up that there is one. i have my beliefs, you have yours. but ultimately it surprises me very much that there are any atheists left. especially in the scientific community, actually every years there is a drop in atheists, the more we learn about physics and such but there are still some.
im not putting them down, im just wondering why now that we have come far enough that science is working hand in hand more and more with faith, how anyone, provided they are seeking scientific truth, cant see that there is something outside the universe, something powerful enough to create it! and that, existing outside of time, is eternal, the alpha and omega, encompassing both beginning and end, as this Being is master of both, being independant of both, and subject to neither.

Wow. Very well written. Being an atheist myself, I'll respond to you more thoroughly tomorrow (friday!!) since I will have more time, but that was a great post. I disagree with you on some aspects, but thanks for providing me that insight into what you believe, and why you believe it.