Broken telephone? Yeah, we used to play that all the time. Once it got from "Mrs. Koskie is cool" to "Mrs. Koskie got cought by police".

Those new comers should really go back and read some of the older posts that we put up...I myself think they are very interesting and could sway someone to think a bit more on the subject...Some of us think that sure Darwin was right, but maybe it was an act of God...I myself don't beleave this because of the writen word (the Bible) says that He made man from sand and...something else that I can't recall...anyway proof is held with in the Bible...if ppl would read it they would understand and it would be a bit eary...the last book would be the best book for a non-beleaver to read...it tells of the world today and how we are in the last days of the world...try it sometime! :)

The book of Revelations...when I was young it scared the hell out of me lol. But its quite interesting.

Sorry caro...

Holy artifacts could've come from anything, and anyone could've written the bible. We have no proof it was written by jesus or his apostles. IMHO jesus was just a very good, and perhaps the first true, politician. I don't mean to offend anyone with that previous statement, but think about it for a second. Would we believe someone that preaches the exact same stuff using a different name for everything, such as a different name for god, the messiah, adam and eve had their names changed to something, the garden of eden was changed to something else. I don't think most people would. Jesus christ went around preaching and drawing followers. And all this stuff about ressurection...I personally think that is a figment of someones imagination. I have a question for all the believers. If you had never heard anyone talk about god, your parents were non-believers, and your whole community was full of non-believers how absurd would it sound to you if you were to walk into a community of believrs and they were to say that you weren't created as a seed from your parents as science has proved, but instead as a work of a superhuman being who possesses superhuman powers. If you grow up as a believer than you will probably believe in god, if your parents aren't strong believers than you probably wont either. Opinions can always cahnge, and even the outcast coming from a community of nonbelievers could change his opinioin on this whole matter, but it would sound absolutely absurd at first. Slowly as you grow accusstomed to the idea you will accept it as truth, it is only human nature to grow accusstomed to the ideas of their peers.

a thumps up goes to you. :up:

Okay, first. Not to make you look bad, but people didn't read War of The Worlds. It was on the radio. People tuning in, thought that it was real. Secondly, I have to disagree that some guy just made everything up. Sorry. I have my own opinion.

ok noe this is tough but i do not belive in any god and have been an athiest for a few years but now i have switched to "Faithless Catholisism" because iu do belive in the church structure . it teaches us a lot of things about how to live or lives and what not it also gives people a sense of comunity they can say hey i am a member of this chuurch and someone can agree or dissagee forming a thing to talk about (ex. this thread) but i dont belive in an omnipotent being that watches us andd know what we do and will reward us for good deeds. i did however belive at one tim then i found out there is no santa

I get more and more worried for you guys....can you not just sit down and read the Bible and open your eyes...truely?? The world is ending right under your nose and you are to stupid to see that...you ppl make it harder for me to want Christ to come again because I want everyone to come to heaven with me :*(

wow dude youre hard core ion your beliefs so i give you your props. but people have been reading WAY too far into revalation for a thousand years. there have been floods and false messiahs for centuries. do drugs drive fast die pretty

yeah, but it's happening....even more then ever...

If god wanted the world to be gay, i'd be adam and steve, not adam and eve

Um.. was there any relevance there?

i think he ment it'd instead of i'd...he's just stating his oppinion...

I dont believe... It seems to weird to be true. I think we just evolved into what we are over millions of years. Maybe we started out from a little organism washing up on a beach?

If there was evolution then there would be tons of "half-animals" evolving into different things. Now tell me...what half-animals do we have besides the ones that man has created? And you cant really believe in the big bang theory because thats like throwing a bunch of rocks and sticks into a pile and wondering why a tv doesnt pop out......

Not half animals...no. We are constantly changing...look at what scientists predict humas to have looked like 20000 years ago. So if you look at it that way you can just say taht we are half-animals at the moment...evolving into something else. Personally I dont really have a strong belief in how we came into being but im leaning towards the big bang theory.

spector is dumb . . . umm well i am not going to explain but if you agree post it b/c some of us have read a book or two in our lives (fiction doesnt count + the bible is fiction = the bible although good words to live is ridiculus untill i get an autographed copy)

So, until you, obviously our local authorized Bible expert, recieve an autographed copy of the Bible (btw, which authors do you want to sign it?), then it is strictly false I am to assume?

*Sigh* I guess I have to go tell the local preachers..

Okay. I am a firm believer that you have to respect opther peoples opinions. I do think that there are many interpretations of the Bible, but I still believe in God. I know I am not really making much of an argument here, but I do. I grew up knowing that there was someone always watching over me, protecting me if i do the right thing. I don't think that you have to give up all your worldly possesions, but I think that you have to try to do good, and you will ascend into heaven. That is my belief.

Well in response to the simple minded comment, have you ever read any theological texts, i think you would see that the belief in god IS NOT just saying " god is a invisible man that is all good". Theology is very complicated stuff. Also, in order to understand about god being able to be by himself and humans having to be created, you would have to distinguish the difference between creators and creatures. God nature is "to be" therefore he is infinite, our nature, or atleast apart of it is to be finite, to have a beginning. the reason you think that god had to have a beginning is because the whole idea of infinty is beyond human grasp.

yea...but if god is just "to be" then the universe could also infinitley be here and just be here "to be"

Oh...btw i have a question. Is the bible published anywhere online because i think if i have free time i might like 2 read it. Thanks if ne1 can help...

Well, the universe has already proved to have a beginning because its expanding, therefore it must at some time been smaller than it is now and so on until there was a time when it wasnt there, also, the universe cant be forever, or be infiite in size, because that would mean matter would be infinite and that is physically impossible.

damn, i had posted my other one before i read THE OTHER FOUR PAGES, so i look stupid, just read the first page. anyway, id just like to clear some things up:

the bible was not written by ONE person but by many people creating these documents from different times until it went from various scrolls, to the torah/nebiim/keviim, to the bible we know to today, let alone the apocrypha.

also, god doesnt send people to hell, hell is the result of people refusing to go to god, thats why hell is most importantly the eternal separation from god.

also, the bible is believed to be the written word of god. but only one bible is. if you go to a store and pick up a bible, you have not bought the written word of god, you have bought the translation of a translation of a translation and so on of the written word of, the only true written word of god is the ORIGINAL bible, complete bible, written on scrolls from about 2000 years ago. i believe one of the most accurate translations is st jeromes vulgate though, although its written in latin o.0

personally, i dont like the bible. i like tradition, although it would seem much less reliable to most.

and i remember one person commented that most christians are just force fed their beliefs and then just spew it out to others. well, by saying that, you are saying that EVERY single christian is just a robot? i find that very difficult to believe.

ill post more but i have to leave now, cya!

I don't really see why existence can't be infinite. If you think about it, if the universe is expanding (I'm not arguing this point), what is outside of it before it expands? Obviously, there's not much, otherwise the universe wouldn't be able to expand over it. But, far far beyond that, assuming that the universe can expand indefinately, there could very likely be other things.

Also, why couldn't the universe simply exist at one constant state from the beginning, as God has? (By the way, I don't know anything about God and space, only God and Earth, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) It could have simply sat dormant until God decided to act upon it.

I don't know of anywhere that the Bible is published online, but I'm sure there are some places. Also, if you have a local dollar store, you can generally find Bibles there about 50% of the time. You can find a big stack of Bibiles at my dollar store about every other time you go. And, of course, they are... let's hear the magic words... Just a Dollar.

I dont understand what you mean about why cant "existence" be infinite. do you mean, why cant the universe just go on forever? in response to the thing about the universe, the only thing that could be outside it is nothing, pure nothing. Of course, it is possible there could be other universes beyond that nothing, but all i know about that is...it totally destroys my argument!!!!! no, im jk, but seriously, i dont know.

in regards to the universe being here from the beginning, that would be like saying the universe has THE POWER to have been here from the beginning, and since the universe has no such real will, if you will, i dont think thats possible.

Thinking about all that is beyond our reach so i think everyone should stfu and live while they can.....

...i like talking about this stuff, and just because its beyond our reaches doesnt mean we should ignore it

I agree with invader...even though we can not grasp these concepts i learn a lot from debating this stuff. Also in response to invader, if the universe can not have the power to be here then what could allow god? I debate myself on this many times, because at times i think that there HAS to be something that started it all, and we could label this god. But also, on the other hand, according to as much as we as humans can understand, something had 2 have created god...so how did it all start. And while we're on this subject, I find it very hard to see how time can be infinite also, although somehow i know it has 2 be. Time can not be stopped....but then how could it all just exist...ehh i dont know.

I know on many of my posts I have come off as an atheist. i am not. I don't believe in god per-say, but if you can offer me enough valid arguments I could change. Honestly I don't know what 2 think...i just have a hard time believing in a superhuman being...that's all.

i think the term you are looking for is agnostic.


anyway, the reason you think that god had to be created because there is nothing in our world that wasnt, because everything in our world by nature is finite, it has a beginning. god isnt finite, hes infinite. His nature is to be, therefore, by his nature, he always was. im sorry, but it requires a certain extent of faith to undertsand this.

time is not infinite, there was a time in which there was no time, infact, god himself is outside time. this is because one of gods attributes is immutability, in other words, he cant change, and this means all changes, for example, he cant have emotions. and since time equals change, god cannot be in time. but since humans cannot grasp the concept of being without time, the simplest way i can put this is, god lives in a constant now. and the only reason time cant be stopped, is because we dont know to do it :)

What do you mean God can't have emotions? If he made us in his image, then he must feel something. He must have a sense of humor, etc. I can't believe that God is emotionless.

Im sure God has a sense of humour. If he doesn't...well...he should, becuase humour is a big part of life.

well, i dont think a sense of humour counts as an emotion perse, and so im sure he has one.

...In regards to God and space...
space is made up of stars right...well this is my small imput...

"Then God said ' Let there be lighs in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;"
" ' and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth';and it was so.
Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars aslo.
God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth.
and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good."

I thought maybe someone would get something from this...

Well, God created the stars in the sky. I never thought about it, but does the Bible ever say anything about God creating the universe?

well isn't the universe just a bunch of stars????

I read a book called "Men in Black", it had a bunch of people who saw aliens and spoke to undercover interstellar police.

So, by your logic, aliens are living amongst us(and they may be, who knows...), and there's a top secret organization that keeps them under wraps. And the world was nearly destroyed by a huge ship.

The bible is just a really old sci-fi novel as far as i'm concerned.

Universe: All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

I always thought of the Universe of being the space that contained everything... Maybe I have been thinking wrong.

Okay....I can't believe that somone just made a reference to the bible as a sort of MIB type thing. Wow. That's a shocker.

I apllied faulty logic to something that most people wouldn't beleive to prove a point. I didn't make any comparison to the bible being like MIB.

at least MIB will make much more sense than the Bible ever did.