Zelaron Gaming Forum - Evolution shouldn't be taught in schools if creationism isn't allowed

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- - Evolution shouldn't be taught in schools if creationism isn't allowed (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39786)

You've just ripped an article by some other bloke to pieces here. Nothing in the post is any of ~JESUS~' own words.

Classy first post though. And now I understand why you started raving about fruit bats. :p

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Originally Posted by Lenny

Lenny if I "rip" and article by someone else, I post a link. Nothing I said today was stolen.

Fruit bats? You need to get off the computer. Go get some exercise. It does the body and mind wonders!:)

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

When looking into tongues, do you entirely discount the experience of those who are from a background of worship in the power of ths holy spirit, and who can speak in their own, individual "prayer language", which is very clearly (when it is heard) not any earthly language? It does happen, really.

Are you Lenny?:p

Nope, he's one of my friends. Christian too.

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Nothing I said today was stolen.

I'm not talking about today. Bat-Melon isn't talking about today.

Look at your first post in this thread. THAT was an article taken from another site with no words of your own voicing your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

I know. Let's take this to bits, paragraph by paragraph.

The experiment showed that it is not impossible that "life's building blocks" appeared purely by chance. There would be many permutations of the conditions in the experiment which could lead to different proteins being formed,

no it cant. Proteins are formed by combinations of amino acids, precise combinations dicated by information only...and environmental factors that select from present genes to survive.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

and no-one can say what the initial conditions were like. This was just a proof of concept, not a proof of what precisely happened.

proof of concept? lol

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Are you looking in the right textbooks?

There are alot of them out there!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

When the Cambrian explosion was first discovered, the technology to look at the fossils properly, to find the precursors of the species which emerged in this eight milion year window.

When it was discovered, scientist thought the earth was no longer then 10,000 years old. There are no intermediates! Bats are found fperfectly complete with sonar hearing and fully extended bat wings! There are no intermediates! there should be hundreds of thousands if not millions! what a lucky time to be alive I guess, nothing is evolving anymore I guess...

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

The boundaries of microscopy are being pushed back, and it is expected that more detail will be found regarding these organisms yet; no reasonable person in the scientific community assumes they have found everything.

Nor will they ever! But they do try to...

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

This paragraph requires a great deal of detail which it is missing to be of any use to anyone. The accusations appear to be unfounded, a slew in general on textbooks which remain nameless,

dude, there are thousands of textbooks written over the last 150 years! Are you joking? Get some like every 20 years and you will laugh!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

and there would have been an outcry by biologists (I feel it can be reasonably assumed that not all young biologists taking their first degrees of study, looking at textbooks and comparing with reality, are dishonest, many in fact profess to be Christian).

...again another opinion with no foundation. Lets debate facts and not discuss what people would or wouldnt do...

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

The archaeopteryx is not generally believed to be a missing link.

oh but it is. My nephew has it in his textbook!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

It is believed to be a relative to the direct ancestors of modern birds,

Oh yeah? where are the rest?

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

and is still not fully understood.

..and it wont be, iits been proven a hoax!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

However, its bone and wing structure is particularly interesting to scientists, and has been observed fossilised in very fine grain limestone, meaning it can be studied perhaps more thoroughly than most fossils, hence its heavy use in textbooks and the like.

..oh is that it, hence? lol...yes that MUST be the reason. Such an exact science!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

The peppered moth is a useful demonstration of the theory, showing how it could be employed.

another played out hoax!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

polar bears vs brown bears is a more wide ranging example across different species, but illustrates the point).

point about what? Its not evolution, its adapting to the environment! This is not evolution, you cant have the best of both worlds! The definition of evolution sure has come along way in the last 150 years, WAY more than the actual proof for the original theory! Its ALL information that had to have had a designer.

..and by the way, its still a bear!!!!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Darwin, the first major literary proponent of evolution in his book "The Origin of Species..." used Galapagos finches as his own example. It is a very easy to understand presentation of the idea, and shows the differences across the different islands clearly, something a textbook is meant to do. It tries not to demonstrate evolution (a long term process),

yes it does, which is why its used.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

but natural selection by means of survival of the fittest

Natural Selection actually is the exact opposite of survival of the fittest as a means of explaining "evolution"..but the definition has evolved to include it as well..with a twist of couse.

Natural selection occurs, but nothing evolves. Nature “selects” genetic characteristics suited to an environment and, more importantly, eliminates unsuitable genetic variations. Therefore, an organism’s gene pool is constantly decreasing. This is called natural selection.

Notice, natural selection cannot produce new genes; it only selects among preexisting characteristics. As the word “selection” implies, variations are reduced, not increased.

People think that because natural selection occurs, evolution must be correct. In actually, natural selection PREVENTS major evolutionary changes!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

It is particularly difficult to engineer extra wings on an animal, or even just extra cartlidge, or an extra head. Give the scientists a break, they demonstrated that if you modify DNA, you can end up with a very different animal. Scientists have demonstrated their concept much more successfully where GM crops are concerned, with many GM crops now in large scale production. The changes to DNA with physical consequences show that changing DNA could lead to improvements in an organism.

Not improvments for say... Just the goal MANS INTERVENTION deliberatley set out to accomplish by taking one gene and mixing it with others. This is FAR from explaining orgins or evolution for that matter!

amazing also that everything just so happens to be fool proof just as it is, the way God made them huh? lol

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Artists drawings are useful in showing to the general public what has been found.

Or not found, we as humans have imaginations. Plant an image, it stays. Very useful tool for proaganda.

The examples givin were proven that the people were told to make the drawings!

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

They are usually representations of evidenced creatures, found by their fossil, or even bone records, and make science more accessilble. They would not be used as evidence (hence justifictation) in serious research.

opinion and false.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Scientific fact is unlikely ever to be proven,

what? Are you joking? Are you just bending rules to fit the mold? lol

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

"The Origin of Species" is no longer the be all and end all of evolutionary theory, it has been expanded upon, as Darwin would have wished, its claims tested, sometimes disproved, but very often supported.

Say the entire name of the book. "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

..its because it HAS to be. Do research on who controls the museums, research funding, boards and everything under...

Evolution is a tool for control.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Just because Darwin said something in his book does not make it true,

Obviously.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

so his admission that his theory may not be up to scratch was in fact very correct of him. The people who were to read his book would possibly have been rather shocked by his work, and he did not want to appear too prescriptive, and he therefore allowed people to make up their own minds, based on the evidence he produced.

Another opinion. He said and did alot of things. Big deal. Most HURT his "theory"

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

THis argument does not follow. Darwin's followers did take to his ideas and believe fervently in them,

you got that right...

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

but this is because they stood up to scientific scrutiny,

Another opinion that doesnt hold. Look at the scientific community then, what influence did it have compared to today? lol

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

and not because of a blind faith which would lead a religion into turmoil and uselessness.

Useless to you. Another unfounded opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Creationism is not regarded as scientific fact, it is a religious concept.

what something is regarded as means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Evolution now is regarded as a scientific fact,

what something is regarded as means nothing. Facts are facts. If you teach one as ABSOLUTE when it isnt, there is a reason...

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

not as a religious concept,

yes because not being absolute it is faith based that worships time that can not be proven, how convenient!

By saying "other concepts such as creationism",

what?

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

you also imply that creationism is one of many different things which "should be banned", when in fact, this debate appears to be purely about creationism and evolution; nothing else had so far been mentioned.

Lets say I actually know what you are talking about, thats not what Im implying Im sure.
Dont divert attention from the facts. One is taught as absolute without ANY regard for the other, facts, or what people believe or want! It and its concepts are constantly changing and expanding for lack of evidence and the dumbing down and unknowingly ignorant acceptence by the controlled masses. Obviously.

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

Evolution has not become a scientific law in the same way that the effect of gravity on a macroscopic scale is regarded as a law.

give me a break dude..:haha:

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

(I use ""s ironically here, I'm getting bored of this argument)

wonder why...lol

spin spin

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Originally Posted by Bat-Melon

We are doing. It's called the study of evolutionary theory, and I couldn't agree with you more.

when you START with a conclusion and warp what you find to fit the mold it isnt science. Its propaganda.

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Originally Posted by Lenny

Nope, he's one of my friends. Christian too.

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I BET!

He sounds christian...

honesty is best Lenny...

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Originally Posted by Lenny

I'm not talking about today. Bat-Melon isn't talking about today.

you like speaking for others dont you..wishfull thinking or delusion?

honesty is best Lenny...

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Originally Posted by Lenny

Look at your first post in this thread.

what about it?
It was an article. Do you know how things work Lenny?

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Originally Posted by Lenny

THAT was an article taken from another site with no words of your own voicing your opinion.

My opinion is known Lenny, if you cant figure it out, go back and read...and read, and read...

then try to find some information that disputes the facts because quite frankly you sound like an ignorant little boy on a computer. ..and thats all.

Dog = God backwards.

I don't believe you. I don't believe you at all!

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I BET!

He sounds christian...

honesty is best Lenny...

What is it with you?! He IS a Christian! Ask him if you don't believe me.

The only difference between you and he is that HE takes the Bible with a pinch of salt. You, however, take every word as the pure truth.

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My opinion is known Lenny, if you cant figure it out, go back and read...and read, and read...

The usual thing to do is post the article, than voice your opinions. Not just post the article and leave it at that. For all I know you could be posting the article because it is absolutely ludicrous. Look through the News and Debates threads, see how many voice opinions in the first post? Look at the News threads I post, see how I voice my opinions?

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you like speaking for others dont you..wishfull thinking or delusion?

honesty is best Lenny...

I AM being honest you dimwit. Read the post. Comprehend the post. Or do you work on a special Bible time that means every day is the same day?

LOL, ~Jesus~ vs. Lenny, LOL. Anyway, I just got on and did a quick reveiw of all the recent posts.Lemme say this, This thread seems to be the most happining thread in opinion and debate(YAY!),however,

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I AM being honest you dimwit

name calling is for the Flame forum.Now my 2 cents about evolution vs. creation in textbooks.This one is for ~Jesus~.The BIBLE(100% accurate) talks about deaf ears.If they simply will not receive the Truth no matter what you say, then kick the dust off your feet and go on.Now to Lenny, the BIBLE has NEVER been proven wrong in its scientific facts, evolution has, big bang theory has.Some people say the BIBLE is wrong, but never give solid facts in why they think that, all they do is comment on their theory in why they think it is.Evolution and the 'ol Big Bang Theories made their houses in the sand so to speak, not on a solid foundation.We have given studies, movies, ect. that have been SOLID FACTS and the most anyone can say is ,oooo you cut and copier.Common dude, I enjoy seeing ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC FACT even if it is a cut and copy.As long as his point gets accross about evolution should not be in schools unless creation is,then I wouldn't mind seeing every word he posted a C&Copy.

The bible has never been proven TRUE! You dimwit. You can't say that damn thing is 100% accurate in any way shape or form. It's been rewritten and re-translated so many times. Plus it's a fucking book! Anyone can have written it for any purpose they had in mind. Ugh. Stop saying it's all facts. You obviously don't know what a fact is. None of it has been proven.

Lmao, I've never seen Lenny so livid.

[QUOTE=Kaneda]Sorry buddy, but this is simply out of line. We are animals, we have no purpose other than survival and procreation. Do dogs have a purpose other than survival? Do they have morals? Do chickens have morals? No, therefore they are meaningless?[QUOTE]

LOL I was just fucking around I just wanted to see what people would say. I just made up all that bull, and I really dont care about all this

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Lmao, I've never seen Lenny so livid.

It happens to the best of us. :weird:

He can insult me all he wants, I don't care. But when he starts calling me a liar, in such a condescending way, and insults my friends at the same time, well, if he wasn't in America I'd be tempted to play a good old fashioned game of Fisticuffs at dawn.

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Talking about books and that "anyone can have written it for any purpose they had in mind", the Books of Lenny pop into mind as being very relevant.

Lenny should pen a bible.

Wow, has this strayed from the topic! I take my bible with a pinch of salt, like Lenny kindly phrased. In Genesis(no I won't post Genesis, I'm not god or anything...pun! Jesus was posting it!) Anywayz, in genisis it says that the world was made in 7 days. Go ahead, believe that! But back when the Bible was written, they didn't write like we do now. Back then they didn't wright lliterally, but more philosophically. I mean, if you do take the bible with no salt, but moreover a Popsicle, which has been proven to make you more diehard so to speak...Mebe... Well, you would find the fault...'Who the hell told Adam and Eve it was 7 days?' God? I don't think so. We're a very curious race, and in being so curious, we have found that faith requires alot...alot, of leaps. There are holes in the bible, and although it seems to be your religion, I think it's better to base your religion on something... That way you'll never be totally wrong. And since when did Jesus start calling people liars? If you want that name, Lord, you'd better go new testament on them and be forgiving. Really...Why teach any of this at school? Why bother kids with another subject, life science. Just teach crap like formulas, forensics, physics, and leave the kid's damn religion to himself.

I learnt where that phrase came from t'other day. :)

In Medieval times people believed that Salt was a cure for all poisons. So they put a lot of salt on their food (which also explains why we put salt on everything) - ie. took everything with a pinch of salt to avoid being poisoned.

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I agree with you there - that the Bible is written not literally but as an idea.

And you tell the kid what for! :p :)

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Lenny should pen a bible.

Maybe one day, if I get really bored.

I actually thought that the phrase came from when superstitious people throw a pinch of salt over their shoulders, but the medieval thing sounds right.

http://www.picaroni.com/holy_bible_copy.png

Rofl, I'm loving the "Ineffallible". :p Two of my best sides in one word. ;)

Haven't seen ~JESUS~ for a few days... and just when it was getting interesting. :(

Shh! You're not supposed to mention that!

Btw, which is it:

Ineffable
Ineffallible
Ineffallable

?

I've been:

Inflatable
Inedible
Inflammable
Ineffable
Infallible
Ineffallible
and Ineffallable

I'm flexible that way. :)

Hahaha...Inflatable...