What do you mean flip-floppers? I have never, ever, ever supported Bush. Look back through the threads, it's all there. Secondly, what makes us hypocrites if we neevr agreed with what he said in the start?

Now, terrorism is an idea. Think about it? How do you declare war on an idea? It's not possible. Declaring war on an idea itself would require completely brainwashing people's minds. War on terrorism isn't what's happening, we're warring with people we want to war with. I hadn't heard a damn thing about Saddam in a long time until Bush brought this whole war about. Why is that? And if we're going to fight "terrorism", then their are much bigger threats. Why Saddam? There has to be an ulterior motive. Now, I have never really mentioned why I think we went to Iraq, except I think that Bush just wants to finish up what his father started. I have many more theories, but they are based on my guesses from the facts I have gathered. Now, one death, a thousand deaths, a million deaths, a billion deaths are all alright in war when their is a legitimate purpose, but I have yet to see a legitimate purpose for this war. One single death is unacceptable when you're fighting for a reason that doesn't exist. (I'm talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan)

We didn't attack Iraq because they had specific links to Al-Quaeda, we attacked Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. Only one problem. They didn't. Bush only emphasized the fact that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Once that was out, everyone supported him. Now, if Al-qaeda and Iraq were connected, which I want links to, it was still no reason to go to war with a Sovereign nation. Civilian casualties in Iraq far exceed those of 9/11. If a nation as a whole wants to harbor someone, it's not our right to disturb their peace. If you want to bring Osama out of Iraq, do so quietly. Of course, since Osama isn't in Iraq, that defeats the purpose. A war with a nation is completely uncalled for if the sole reason is to oust a group of 500 or so people. And, if that is the case, then I suppose the terrorists are winning? Although Al-qaeda has been weakend, it is still thriving, and Osama is still on the loose. If our purpose in Iraq was really to bring Al-qaeda down, then we ended the war a little early, don't you think? Now, Osama needs to be brought to justice. I agree with the idea. What I disagree with is the tactics that Bush has used. This could have been done in a much better manner. Now, I know some smart ass is going to ask whether or not I could have done it better. Well, I'm going to answer you beforehand. I honestly do believe that I could have done it better.

And as for your last statement, you're absolutely right. If Gore had done all of this, then I would have been sitting here criticizing him instead. Every time I have said Bush, or Dubya in this thread would have been replaced with a Gore.

Ha. Raziel, you and I both had that point about the war on an idea.

Vote Kerry/Edwards - Get complete sentences back into the white house!

Well, it's the truth. You can't fight an idea with bullets. Communism is a perfect example. Naziism is a perfect example. Satanism is a perfect example. People still practice witchcraft today, and a few hundred years ago we were burning those people alive. You can't pysically remove an idea from the consciousness of the human race, it will always be there.

We're not fighting terrorism, we're just murdering people.

Man.... That's deep stuff. I gotta remember that so I can say it one day and sound smart.

In all fairness, how many people that were burned in the old days were actually practicing witchcraft?

lmao why dun you just spray paint "Liberals congregate here" on this thread?

Ok

....................

zagggon is such a bitch.

What the fuck ever. This is why this is my first and last post in a political debate. Nobody knows anything about what the fuck is going on, it's pointless to argue about it. Yeah, you can form opinions and whatnot, but you have the comprehension of a two year old Down's Syndrome patient about what the fuck is really happening in Iraq.

I'm not voting, anyway, so I'm going to gladly back out of this shit-infested thread.

Iraq's ability to reinstate a nuclear weapon's program had progressively decayed since the first war, and Mr. Duelfer "found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."

"Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991" -- and Duelfer saw no "credible indications" that the regime had any of these weapons since then, or even sought to acquire the materials needed to make them.

Duelfer's report proves that Iraq wasn't a threat to us as our inept President continues to insist in his inarticulate speeches. The Iraqi regime’s diminished power presented a problem not nearly as grave as those posed by North Korea, Iran and Al Qaeda.

That's all I need to know.

He just served you a slice of key lime pwnage.

Bush rules, tomorrow when I read this entire thread I will explain more.

From what I have heard, mind you its not much as I personally am not that interested in the topic, there is evidence to support the fact that Kerry has/is lieing about his service in the military, among other things. He does seem at time to loose track of where he's going and to me just doesn't seem overly bright. That's as far as I can go with his faults.

For Bush, the list is infinately longer. You can plainly see during debates and any political speaking event that he is, dare i say, a fucking dolt. He struggles with the saying some of the simplest phrases and doesn't seem to usually understand just what the hell he's talking about. He lied to the world about the Iraq war, it is now proven that there weren't and aren't anyweapons of mass destruction. The list goes on but simply put, he's a fraud.

Everyday that I see anything regarding the election, it frightens me that one of these morons is going to be running the most powerful country in the world. If Bush hadn't scammed his way through the other branches, separation government may have given me some hope. Overall, I hate to see the impact of this election and am glad I am not American in this era.

Vote for Kerry as the lesser idiot

Is this "evidence" that Kerry is lying about his war record coming from Bush's campaign? You know all this stuff is surfacing now because this is when election time is, and politics is a dirty game. Now, really, I don't think Kerry is the absolute best person for the job, but I don't think he's terrible either, simply because I've not seen what he can do. All these claims that he is going to fail as president is really just speculation, because we have no earthly idea what he can or can not do as president. We've never seen the man in action.

Now, as for the fact that he "flip-flops." Yes, he changed his mind about certain things, but the guy has been in politics for a long time. If he hadn't changed his views on some issues after learning all the stuff he has learned, then there would have certainly been something wrong. Think about it like this. A married couple, the average American man and woman, get married and vow to be together forever. More than likely, they will be divorced in the future. They have changed their minds based on something that they learned. Calling Kerry a flip-flop is accusing him of conceptually the same thing. Now, as for the Iraq war, perhaps he supported it in the beginning because of the fallacies that Bush has been feeding everyone. Once he learned the truth, he changed his views on it. Now, I don't know how much truth there is in that statement, if any, but it's a possbility. My point is that people do change their minds. It's not a crime.

And I do agree with you. Bush is infinitely worse. He's an idiot. He made a bigot Attorney General; a guy who couldn't win a spot as senator while running against a dead guy. You really want these people in power?

I still laugh my ass off when I think about Ashcroft losing to a dead guy.

Bush most certainly is an idiot, but he's only a puppet of Cheney's.

Okay, Bush did win the election. He won the majority of the EC votes, not by having the Supreme Court appoint him. So good try with this one.

Second, Hitler also created those laws, ruling Germany as a dictator, while Bush only passes the laws into effect. Here in America, he have a system of checks and balances. Its to prevent one of the Government branches from gaining too much power. You should look into this some time. As for the Patriot Act, drastic times call for drastic measures.

Third, Hitler did not attack these countries becausehe thought they posed a threat to Germany. He did so in order to gain more living space for germans, and re-unite all the German speaking countries under one flag. As for the casualties into 5 digits got an info to back that up?

Concentration camps? You fucking with me?

Propoganda, you mean like what Kerry is throwing around? Saying how he is going to keep all the manufacturing jobs here in American and grow more. Note even if he does, these aren't the kind of jobs that Americans need. We need to expand our service market and not manufacturing.

How is Flip-Flopping Harmless? Also Kerry is a gun supporter/ non gun supporter depending on who he is talking to. Kerry has been on the wrong side of every defense measure that the US Senate has passed over the 30 years. He is also going to raise taxes on all, also when you make Ted Kennedy look like the conservative senator from Mass. there is something extremly wrong.

Kerry tries to please everyone and contradicts himself a countless number of times. He's a two-faced, lieing, do-anything-to-win bastard. You hear about the supposed, "The draft is being reinstated if Bush wins in '04" rumor? Hrm, I wonder who made that up? Kerry administration, gogo!

Saddam did not attack us, but I if you don't think that he help to fund terroism or help Al-Queda then you should wake up. It has already been showen that he help Hamas and funded there suicide bombers in Isreal. The links have been proven.

They don't live in the same part of the world, one is in the middle east and one is in asia.

Do you know that we are basically the only superpower left in the world? If we don't step in and stop countries before we or our allies are attacked who is going too? France, ohh wait thats right they sold the Iraqies rocket fuel.

I am pretty sure we aren't fight agains communism anymore.

I am not sure on that, Gore is really indecsive. He might have been too concerned on the environment to actually have the balls to do something like what Bush did.

Err.. it was I who said that last quote of yours.

The point I was trying to make is this: If we had been attacked, I'm sure that any President would have done close to or exactley like what George Bush did. And all of you nay-sayers would be criticizing him, as well.

Liberals

http://www.channel3000.com/politics/3776992/detail.html



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Bush won the electoral votes through the Florida supreme court. The millions in Florida who voted did not really count, it was the select few on the bench of the supreme court. That's how Bush got those electoral votes.

Hitler wasn't dictator when the Enabling Act was passed. That, in effect, gave him dictatorial powers. That sounds like the patriot act extended to me. Hitler passed the Enabling Act as Chancellor, and I believe Hindenburg had control of the country at that time.

I didn't say that these countries posed a threat to Germany, I said that's what Hitler made the Germans believe.

The Miami Herald
The Dominion
Nashua Telegraph
Workers.org

Bunch of other newspapers that I didn't directly cite.

Not one bit.

Very different situation here. Kerry is saying that he will attempt to create jobs for the American people, something that Bush has failed at. Kerry is saying that he will attempt to once again bring back our booming economy of the 90's. Is it possible that he'll fail? Yes, it is possible, perhaps even likely, but that's nothing like lying to the American people about weapons of mass destruction and sending their kids out to war on a reson based on lies. It's nothing like telling the American people that there is a direct threat by Saddam Hussein on America, and then retracting our liberties in the name of those threats; the very liberties that the United States government has pledged to uphold. Failing to create jobs and causing tens of thousands of deaths are very different.

Look at a couple of my previous posts. I have adressed that before.