That is something we will figure out later

He was always there.

so ur saying that we couldn't have just "poofed" and been here and he could? Why could we not have just "poofed" and been here?

No, I'm saying that God never "appeared." He was ALWAYS THERE. He exists outside of time, therefore he had no "beginning."

Nothing can exist outside time, and nothing can exist outside space. To me this topic is faith vs logic. If u think about it that statement that god was always here makes no sense. Because time has no beginning or end, space has no beginning or end...it makes no logical sense that god would live outside the universe. And religion is changing all the time. It was said that heaven was up in the clouds. Now ur making it seem as if god were 2 exist in some completely different world where math and science make no sense because it is impossilble for nething, spiritually or physically, to exist outside of time.

How can you possibly begin to prove that opinion? I can't prove that God exists, but you most certainly cannot prove that he doesn't. You can't even prove that you're actually sitting in front of your computer. For all you know, you're a fish dreaming that you're a dude sitting in front of a computer. Don't even begin to say "it's impossible for anything to exist outside of time" when you aren't even capapble of proving your own existence inside time.

but i am capable of proving my own existence inside time. If i was a fish dreaming this then I wouldn't be able to post on this forum. Time, as described by science, has no beginning and no end, so as if u r going 2 take the litteral deffinition of time it is impossible to have something outside that. And it is a pretty far-fetched idea that I would be a fish dreaming that I am me sitting in front of my computer. U can't say that I do not exist. I can thing, eat, walk, talk, and do other activities. Everything in this world exits for the smallest particles of the atom to the whole universe and time itself.

This is like trying to explain quantum physics to a four year old. If you want me to make it easy for you, I'll use an analogy. It's a fucking stupid analogy, but it serves my purpose.

Have you seen The Matrix? I imagine you have, so follow me here. Just because you can touch the things in front of you, or eat the food in your refigerator that doesn't make those objects real. Everything you experience in everyday life could be nothing more than a dream. Much like The Matrix...(God, I hate using this ridiculous analogy).

The point is this. Just becuase you say you exist, doesn't mean you exist. Just because you believe you are really here, doesn't actually mean you are really here. It could all be in your head. That's where faith comes in. If you don't believe in God because there is no "proof", then technically you can't believe in anything. Including your own existence.

We're all proud that you can "prove" that you exist. This topic here, however, is not about whether we exist or not.

Dictionary.com defines time, as you refer to it, as:
"A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future."

Have you been outside the time continuum and looked around? Hrm.. probably not. How can you, a simple human with a simple mind, possibly be able to prove, or even know, what can or cannot exist outside of a dimension that simple-minded humans define as all encompasing?

if god was always with you, how could he be with everyone? lol

Cuz he's 1337

Also, if you think of it, since God may be viewed as being outside of time, he doesn't have to follow the laws we set forth for time. He could spend as much "time" with one individual as he wanted and still have enough "time" to be with as many others he wants to in the same --period of time--.

I think it's "time" for me to get some food.

Sorry, Bob. I had to do it.

I used the quotes and dashes to show the different meanings of time I was using.

I know, I know. My "Flame Instincts" (or Fighty Sense, you might call it! Get it? Like "Spidey Sense"? Ugh...nevermind) commanded me to take the opportunity to mock you. I am powerless against the pull of the almighty "inadvertent set-up."

But, to get back on topic. I completely agree with you, Bob. Good form, good form!

Becuase he is omnicent.

seems like there is alot of ppl arguing about this

i think Jamesadin wanted thoughts and opinions and who believes and shit
everyone has posted an opinion here no one said God CANT exist only that they dont believe he exists

>Believer<

To deep a subject to elaborate on.....

raziel i dont want u 2 take me the wrong way. I'm not trying to convince ne1 here to being atheist or nething and im not saying ne1 is wrong here...in fact i would like to turn into a believer because i would be able 2 have something 2 fall back on in hard times but it's kind of har 2 believe in the matrix-like thing u had stated earlier or that nething can exist outside time or space. I'm sorry it's just the way i am. If it doesn't make logical sense than i have a hard time believing it. I', not trying 2 say nething against ne1s beliefs so plz dont take me the wrong way.

mjordan2nd? Do you believe that I say there is god, do you want me to prove it?

well if u can prove it plz do.

Read the Bible, thats all I have to say.

k.......mjordan2nd

Do you have a great-grandfather?

yes i do

I don't believe you, prove it.....well, even if you have picture, I still won't believe you, because how do I know if that is your real great grandfather?

I think the bastard doesn't have a great grandfather.

Medieval Bob...sorry, that was not my point! By the thing is...let him talk. lol

dont try to prove god exists or doesnt thats not possible
you can talk about reading the bible adn all that all day
i still wont believe
in fact.. i believed in god less after i read it....

Every persons search for God is a very personal and different experience.
When I was 20 I believed in selling Cocaine and banging cheap women and drinking expensive liquor and I strongly doubted the existence of God as he had little to offer me at that time. Now that Im a little older and have experienced more (and survived my previous beliefs lol) I do believe that we all have a higher purpose. If you asked everyone who voted no on this poll in ten years who knows what they would say? Ask them after the birth of their first child! After being married for 20 years! On the other hand ask everyone who voted yes and you could also get completely different results. I knew a girl who was a faithful catholic for years and years who lost a cousin to a senseless drunk driving accident and she now professes to believe in no God at all.

God reaches different people in different ways and I wont go into my personal awakening. I am not a born again christian or even a regular church goer but I feel in my heart that theres something bigger then me out there.

Theres a great little book called "Inferno" by...... uhhhhhhh sheesh Niven or Pournelle I always get em mixed up that is a sci-fi update of Dantes Inferno. It asks some good questions about why God would keep a private torture chamber called hell and lots of other modern updates on sins and morality. it raised more questions in my mind then the Bible ever did.

Doofus :)

I have read this amazing book...IT'S CALLED THE BIBLE...you know the one w/ the ppl who saw Jesus and spoke to God and yeah all that...

Most of you people would like the book of Revalations, and Exodus. (Revalations is at the back of the Bible, and Exodus is near the front)

i have read probly 90% of the bible i understand what it is about

my post earlier i told you it contradicts itself alot i have an example but not very specific:

The story of David and Goliath
David kills Goliath

later on in the book.....

someone else sposidly killed goliath im sorry i forgot the names of the verses
but there are many many contradictions in the bible

The bible was written by a bunch of humans, so obviously they're gonna screw the story up all over the place. If I want to hear the accurate history of the Christian religion, I'll wait until I'm in Heaven and hear about it from someone who has the facts straight.

VERY good point Raz

Ok, here's the way I look at things...

Religion is a crock of shit. It's too easy to give people something to believe in, write a book, and become rich and famous... As for God, I will say there is A God. There is a god as there is a heaven and a hell... within you. No one can say who God is, because he is who you make him. Just like no one can say what heaven and hell is, because they are what you make of them. This whole Catholicism and Christianity religion crap is bullshit(sorry if i offend someone) How can you sit there and let someone tell you what to believe? Ex: I walk up to you on the street, not knowing you. I tell you if you follow me wherever I go, I'll give you the continent of Africa. Would you believe me? But would you believe it if a High Priest told you? It's all just manipulation, something to keep people en masse from going against their wills.
Now, I'm not saying all religion is bullshit, but most mass religion seems funny to me, religion should be more personal faith, not faith in a cross or faith in a statue.

As for the whole creation vs. evolution thing... who knows? For someone biased towards science, of course evolution is easy to believe. But whose to say whose right? None of us were there, and we can't travel in time yet. If a scientist finds out creation is really what happened, do you think he'd make it public? If a priest found out that evolution is the way tables turned, do you think he'd let everyone know and possibly cause chaos? That's why I'll just believe what I see, for myself.

Wow, I really rambled.... lol

PostScript: I just want to clarify that I'm not saying anyone here is wrong, this is my personal opinion. I think that if what you believe in makes you at ease with yourself and thats what you truly believe, than that is how it is for YOU.

ok here's my point on this...I've heard things like this before and I've simply said that there are many a name in "Bible times" world and in that...there were many John's, James, and Peter's...as there are many Brads,Chris's,and Stevens today....could there have been more goliath's?

Good point, Silverjinx. As I recall, there are quite a few "Saul's" in the Bible as well.

Yes, all those names were used quite frequently, and all of our anmes derive from those names. Jesus goes to Jeshna, which goes to Joshua. So Goliath could be Greg or something like that today.

Personally I think that all of this religion was made up 1000's of years ago...as i said earlier....as a political movement. I mean look at ireland...it is so divided because of religion...and they are all christians. Now as some of you said earlier...I agree that not everything is under the control of humans and there is a lot of stuff we can't explain YET. How was the universe started. If you believe in the big bang how did all that density get there in the first place. If you want to collectively define all of that as god than yes I will agree with you but I do not believe in a supernatural being or a heaven or hell or an afterlife for that matter. Religion is good for peace of mind I believe, and 1000's of years ago fear of a supernatural power like a god would keep people in line.

Also to those of you that are debating creation vs. evolution: Personally I believe in evolution because the theory is based on fact and careful observation. I've done a little bit of research and Darwin was a huge believer in the bible. I haven't read the bible myself but from what ive read the orginal Theory of Evolution does not disregard the bible. It actually goes along with it. That is just what i have read though, I have not read the complete theory of evolution nor have I completely read the bible.

You should read some of it, quite interesting actually.

I have thought that once...that it was all made up...but then when you read the Bible and wonder about it's coming to this world and what not I think it was impossable for it not to be made up...I mean when you have a town of ppl looking at Jesus rise into heaven...come on...?
And when you talk about the big bang I was thinking about that last night. I have decided to read at least one chapter from the Bible a night now. Well last night I read chapter one of the first book...when God made earth I figure that maybe the big bang fits in with that...God made the earth=BIG BANG=earth...??understand?