Zelaron Gaming Forum - My Objection to Religion

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- - My Objection to Religion (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41042)

?What goes well?

An argument like this won't be resolved because of people's strong beliefs.

If anything, it will go forgotten to the bottom of the topic index.

yeah thats true, interesting isn't it?

You're speaking my mind! Demon! You're a witch! BURN HER!

Ah. An example of Christianity causing dissonance. Burning witches at the stake, an uncalled for excuse to 'explain' the unexplainable. Thank God we live in an age where science isn't deemed witchcraft.

haha thats right, imagine if what atnas said was true

maybe some of the science geeks wouldn't be here......you know, thats not a bad idea

I'd have been used as extra kindling if there wasn't enough wood to burn the witches. >=|

the hell with the witches, lets burn the science geeks!!

Damn their Heliocentricity!

heliocentricity?
erm, lets just go with burning them k?

Heliocentricity

Compared with the age-old religious belief that all celestial bodies, including the Sun, orbited Earth as it's obviously the centre of the known Universe, the Heliocentric theory states that all celestial boodies, including Earth, orbit the Sun.

I loved how I didn't have to look it up. Though if I had quit being so lazy I would've found it's base words and figured it out.

An 8th grade guess....
Helio(sun) Centricity(a circular property in motion around a focal point, relating to or having revolutive properties)
Am I right?

And who makes up these words to begin with? It'd be a pretty awesome night-job.

That's what I'm here for. :p

It was a 16th-17th Century term, believed to be true by Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler - all three of whom had to go into hiding due to radical ideas that went against the Churches teachings - other than Geocentricity (Earth at centre).

Now I can't remember whether I learnt that in History, Physics, or RS.

LENNY FUCKING GO TO BED!!!

I did...

It was only 20 past 2, and I was playing with my websites.

I e-mailed this to my father, and thought I'd post his reply here:

Quote:

Now that Ive had time to read and understand it, let me first congratulate you on an excellent paper. It clearly and substantially argues against the supremacy of religion in society. I summarize your arguments below:

N1. Absurdity of religious mythology

N2. Absolutism and consequent suppression of critical thinking

N3. Indoctrination of religious dogma since early part of ones life

N4. Creationism and refutation of scientific facts

N5. Rise of fundamentalism and the inability of moderates to counter them

N6. Violence in the name of religion

N7. Greater risk of catastrophic destruction in this age of WMDs

It seems that N1,N2,N3 are the characteristics of religion whereas N4,N5,N6 are the negative effects of those characteristics and N7 is a potential catastrophic effect. And, I think that the effects N4N7 are the motivation for your paper.

However, if you look into human capabilities and resulting behavior, youd realize that a vast majority of people have limited ability to think critically and cannot understand nature and its consequences very well. Thus their behavior is driven by their emotions, feeling of what they like or dislike, rather than reason. They think they reason but in most cases it is only rationalization within the contexts of their feelings. In some way, aforesaid characteristics of religion N1,N2,N3 address human limitations and also help result in the following additional positive effects of religion.

P1. Helps deal with events beyond ones control

P2. Gives hope where hopelessness would rule otherwise

P3. Facilitates camaraderie - a social network which is a safety net to people

P4. Helps people channel their emotions

P5. Helps people lead meaningful and satisfying lives

P6. Facilitates order in the society

In my view, if you consider historical negative effects N5,N6 in the context of the positive effects P1P6, the positive effects would outweigh the negative effects. Therefore, I think that religion improves lives and still has a place in the society today.

So, how can the paper be improved and should it be published thereafter?

A. I think that if published as is, it could infuriate some people, as rejection of their beliefs would be hurtful to most. As you said it, indoctrination from childhood renders them incapable of questioning their beliefs. Since this is a logical paper, most people would not be able to understand it and react to it by their gut feeling. They will see you as a biased atheist rather than as a rational being. So, I think that it would be helpful to include some of the positive characteristics of religion, if you want to publish this article. You want people to think critically when they read this, instead of them reacting to an article that rejects their beliefs outright. You want to appear as an impartial and balanced student. On the contrary, newspapers like to publish controversial articles; if you are balanced they could think that you lack conviction and might choose not to publish it because it is not incendiary enough.

B. Also, I think that the closure, the last paragraph, could be improved. Elaborate on how it is an expression of human emotion (e.g. we are small and fragile in the grand scheme of things). Explain how religion is more harmful today. Also, instead of saying that it does not deserve a place in society, I would say that its role should be diminished and that moderates ought to counter fundamentalists.

C. The title could be improved perhaps to Undesired Characteristics and/or Consequences of Religion or Arguments Against Supremacy of Religion ; make it less personal

D. I would also prefer to cite references wherever you have stated a scientific fact.

Had not really thought about publishing it before, but it is an idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjordan2nd

From my experiences, I have come to a conclusion which seems to contradict common sense. It would seem natural that as one gets older he questions things more, but from what I've seen it is the other way around. Younger children tend to have a lot of questions on the world, but as people grow older they grow more accepting of answers provided to them by authority.

I read an article from the Houston Chronicle earlier which I found interesting, and goes to show why I have come to the conclusion that I state in the quote above.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...e/4370733.html

Your dad and you have a way with words, don't you?

You better be the first black president, mjordan2nd. >=|

And you should publish it. Might wanna reword it just a tad and follow what your dad said though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KagomJack

Might wanna reword it just a tad

What/How would you suggest?

maybe he was just bored when he posted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ailis

maybe he was just bored when he posted?

I'm not sure what that means or who it was directed towards.

Maybe simplify the language a little bit. Try to use more positive words instead of negative words. That's up to you, though. I thought it was fine the way it is, but I just thought I'd just offer up that since a friend of mine told me to suggest it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KagomJack

Hmm...

Is the language difficult to follow? If so, could you or your friend suggest where I might simplify it?

I'll ask him when he's back from his classes.

Do you never see your dad or something? That sounds like a very weird reply to get from your dad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravitonSurge

Do you never see your dad or something? That sounds like a very weird reply to get from your dad.

I see him every other week or so. Why do you say that?

It seems distant, one of those "I'll buy his love because I never see him" relationships that come about from divorces and parents with careers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GravitonSurge

It seems distant, one of those "I'll buy his love because I never see him" relationships that come about from divorces and parents with careers.

I sent my father an article on religion for him to read and reply, as I posted it here for you to read and reply. I think I got an astute and honest response based on the subject of the email. I don't understand how you came to your conclusion based on that.

This is an interesting subject to say the least. But seriously mj if you aren't running for president as soon as you turn 33? (I forgot the age req.) I will personally hunt you down and force you to run after all fighting is all I really ever was good at...besides using science to invent things, but as stated before religion has us researchers running circles due to it limiting what we can and cannot research.

Then move out of America. Places like Switzerland have very few restrictions on what the researcher can do.

Hmmm I was thinking of Germany myself I know how they like to be ruthless about things. Britain isn't so bad either I know each town/city kinda has it's own thing I can't really explain it but my mom can since she is from there. Kinda like if one place in GB objects to you doing tesla research another town might have people who don't care and the govt. of GB wouldn't care otherwise tech is tech in their eyes and they don't bend over backwards for the pope like Bushy boy does.

Quote:

Britain isn't so bad either I know each town/city kinda has it's own thing I can't really explain it but my mom can since she is from there.

Don't worry about that, I'm English. :p

It really depends which subject you want to research in.

Most Universities around the country specialises in quite a few different things, which means you can probably find a Uni that does what you want to research, in the part of the country you like the most.

Like I, say, want to go and do Computer Science - from what I've found out, Bristol is among the best. So are Oxbridge. Manchester and York are supposed to be good, too.

The only thing you'd have to watch out for are the nuts who go around burning down labs that do animal research and then go and dig up your grandma.

As for the govt, they can go mexican themselves. I ought to know more, but all I know about Labour is that they've gone and put bloody tuition fees in place. £4000 a year ($7,900).

But, anyway, I'd have thought that mainland Europe would be more lax. Especially in Switzerland because of their laws - for example, euthanasia is permitted in Switzerland, with special clinics up and down the country.

Wow had no idea Bristol did Computer Science at all heard of the others though, but about Germany...here is close to what would happen...

Pope:"You cannot research stem cells it goes against the will of God!"

German Scientist:"STFU YOU LITTLE BITCH BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE!"

Pope:"You art the most unholy man in this world I must help you see the light!"

German:"I said STFU you stupid son of a bitch I'm trying to concentrate damnit."

Pope:"-incert random religious mumbo jumbo from the bible here-"

*German takes his new power fist model and decides to test run it on the Pope' face*

German:"Hmmm a little too much shock in this but at least it's fixable."

German Assistant:"Oh my...you killed that french bastard oh well the world is better for it."

Thus the world is rid of one more shithead.

French?!

The new Pope is German, I'm sure of it.

Meh whatever he is he sucks and are you trolling the forums?

Lenny isn't a troll. He's our favorite Brit kid.

I'm your only Brit Kid.

WHA?! really!? only one person here from england? I was gonna say like 20% of the people at least but nevermind.

Does any1 here 'not' agree with atheism? I do...but seriously, there's not much point if you can't bitch about it to some christian ^.^

We're the modern internet generation. Of course we agree with atheism!