"and you really cant say ANYTHING about taurens...spellcasters own them...and hard...your never going to have more taurens then your foe has dott"

"First off yummz i SAID TAUREN ARE A BAD CHOOSE vs spellcasters as a general statement did i say anything about you saying that ...no? "

Funny how you conradict yourself, so eager to flame doesn't take the time to read, good job.

"Have you seen shamans cast bloodlust? it puts them OUT of the fight it takes them a relatively long time to cast it...and while the ONLY thing you have on the ground are shamans and witch doctors and the shamans are constantly bloodlusting and rebloodlusting everything the huntresses have already killed them..then your dott finish off the wyverns....and its nice that you keep repeating the effects of bloodlust lol..."

Ok let me put this to you simply, a GOOD orc player will go mass shamans, 3 hero to start and will throw in wyverns/1-2kodo/and witchdoctors soon after. Now this player will have 60-70pop in shaman that means they will should have:

15peons x15
3 heros x15
12shaman x24
1-2 wyvern x8
1 kodo x4
2 doctors x4
total 70

That is 70pop, typically I get a expo and go to around 80-85 pop by increasing the amount of wyverns right before a major battle. Now most ne will attempt to remove the heros from battle first, good move considering the blademaster with bloodlust can absolutely rape dryads if you don't remove him quickly. Now 12 shaman casting bloodlust and 2 doctors throwing down wards will NOT BE OUT OF THE BATTLE for very long whatever you believe. Also the Shaman do 19dmg average +4dmg from the kodo not even including increased speed from Tauren Chieftan. Your dryads do 22dmg avg before poison, so not only do my shaman do better base dmg than your dryads And your hunts first attack they attack 40-70%(depending on TC level) faster. Yes you will get a couple seconds before the battle to attack my shaman while they rebloodlust but it will NOT be a long time and most likely you will be using the time to micro on my heros. There is a good chance you will get 1 before the battle is done, especially if you went demonhunter first. That is where healing potions become your best friend, but that is a different discussion. My point is that your belief that dryads instant cast abolish (which is not instant, they have to raise their spear in the air, so prolly about 1sec cast with no cooldown) will not keep 12 shaman SO BUSY they are not in the battle. Shaman raise into the air, spread their arms and cast bloodlust, this take approx. 3sec max. that gives your dryads a 2sec advantage, which considering they can only keep up with the shaman 2x before they out of mana will not be sufficient for you to win this battle.

And I keep repeating the effects of bloodlust because apparently you do not seem to understand them they are very powerful, 40%attack and 25% speed in unbelievable for a caster that can do 23dmg for 150gold and has 410hp. Say what you will but that is way too beasty in my mind.

This is most likely my last post on this subject take it however you want, I expect a reply with you telling me again how dryads are instant casters and how bloodlust take so long to cast that shaman have no chance, I have not even brought up the range issue, alot of the time your dryads will not even be within range to dispel all my shaman...

Ok...i really dont even feel like reading that...or writing anything to contradict it cuase your so ignorant and look at things 1 sided that you just babble on ...Why dont you prove it to me if you keep thinking your right and so much better lol? Why dont we 1v1? ill post replay up on a new thread? ;)

I see, don't read it, you seem to do that often. I don't look at thing one sided, I just don't believe orc are at the disadvantage plain and simple. Ne are a great race, and with enough gay shit of their own, *ahem* Cyclone *ahem*. I am not a great orc player but I am not horrid either, I will play you if its convienent.
YuMMz
USWest Lordaeron

Speaking of which most of this debate is in ideal conditions which 2 good player rarely get a ideal army up of what they want exactly since the other player usually makes them make a couple changes. There is a good orc vs ne replay at http://www.progamer.ru/war3/replays.html
Ghostridahii vs Some Ne guy.

And look through the post I never once stated I was a better player than you, you seem to take everything so personal. ITS A FORUM DEBATE, settle down kid.

Ok, "kid" well you say its a form debate...and yes it WAS a form debate...but your so ignorant that theres no way you can be convinced that orc are at a disadvantage so i have to show you..and i like the "kid" thats real mature...And theres really no other way for me to show you that a dott can rape a wyvern solo...and EVEN if by some chance it is bloodlusted i garentee 2 dott's will have no problem killing a wyvern without loosing 1..i really dont see the logic your using when your trying to say orc dont have the disadvantage....so if you dont want to 1v1 i suggest you just stop arguing...i mean its not hard to make a custom game with set food and units and sim out a fight...Just dont try and get your point acorss by posting a replay of ghost vs some newb ne...cuase i can post hundreds of replays of an ne owning an orc in the same situation...

Names FIiK on east..

http://www.battle.net/war3/ladder/da...ateway=Azeroth

The debate is good but please keep flames in the

FLAME FORUM

Okay lets look at flik's responses...

"Yummz ...first off you've obviously never had dryads dispel your bloodlust"

"you've OBVIOUSLY never played anyone remotely challenging....."

"but you should really be more sure of things before you post them..."

That was just from his FIRST response, and his later response just got worse. I never once made any personal attacks against him in me first reply just stated the fact, hp/mana and casting time comparisons between dryads and Shaman and the response I get was, How I must suck and never play anyone good and should learn more about the game.... Uh yeah all I know is the first one to flame is 99% of the time the one who is wrong.

And I never once said you flamed.. I merely said:

If you didn't flame don't worry about it. ;)

yeah yummz and every one of those statements are true...although your persistance in trying to prove that spellcasters and air can beat ANTIspellcasters and ANTIair is funny..keep trying to convince me yummz lol

Nice comeback one day you might actually say something besides calling me a newb to prove your point. Warcraft 3 is far from balanced right now and casters doing way too much dmg and costing way too litte money is one of them. Caster are NOT the support units they are supposed to be in this game they can be the whole army. Which in my mind is a problem. So saying anti caster unit can beat caster unit is not quite accurate since caster a bit too powerful right now and can actually beat that anticaster unit. Plus once again my shaman are damn cheap at 150gold a pop and do more dmg than your dryads and have more hp. Economically they are a better unit. And over the course of the game that will have some effect.

yes mass spellcasters is the GAYEST thing in this game and its not balanced at all...you SHOULDNT be able to mass spellcasters but look at human...with brillance aura (which needs to be halved at least) mass spellcasters+ blizzard can beat almost ay army...ive lost to mass human spellcasters with mostly dryads..YEAH that should work right blizzard? my mass anti spellcasters looses to mass spellcasters....but in a 1v1 a shaman cant kill a dryad...and dryads do do more damage...but yeah blizzard needs to fix shit...but there moto is hey weve already made money selling the game why the hell should we spend TEN MINUTES OF our time to fix some simple coding to stop people from disc hacking....or maphacking...or even balancing the game...oh well what can you do =[

Play a game that is free and updated with new features, maps, fixes every 2 or 3 weeks, and has goverment funding until 2006.

Your right dryads with the lvl 3 upgrade do 22dmg and shaman do 19dmg, my mistake. I am going to load up a game and test 12 shaman vs 12 3-3 dryads and see who wins, because I am curious now, I think bloodlust will have enough impact after the first round of casting and dispelling that the attack speed difference will make up for the armor/dmg difference. This is not what I was argueing earlier though, since that involves a combo of units and good hero micro ;P.

cus they like men ???

i dont think you can really say any army can beat anouther army now that i think about it...warcraft 3 is really about micro...i think our early argument about the 2 armies can go either way determining just how good the other player can play/micro....thats one of the reasons i like wc3 alot more then other rts's like starcraft were the battle is over in like 3 seconds lol..and thatdude i hope dryads would like men there women >.<

I did the fight with 12 dryads and 12 shaman...here it is for d/l =]

http://spheresoft.0catch.com/DryadsVsShaman.w3g -you cant click the link though you have to copy and paste it into your browser...gay hotlinking -_-

dont ask me what MyNd was doing during the game i dont think hes played orc before heh

Orcs dont suck, you suck, you make them suck, scout and get the right combos and every race will own.

i Just wanted to put my 2 cents in

almata is right orcs dont suck, only gay things suck so unless blizzard left something out in telling peeps that orcs r gay, they do no suck either

/hopes people dont call him retarted for a retarted joke
/gets 2 cents in

anyone who thinks orcs are bad, goto pixelmethods.com and download some of stalker-crafts replays. that build is prefect, it beats everything

This thread's getting WAY too off-topic.

*CLOSED*

(Sorry guys, but you'll have to start a new thread if you want to continue this debate)