I think it's more like we'll tell you your beliefs are wrong rather than try to make you believe ours. I personally think the more you try to make someone believe something, the less they will ever believe it. You shouldn't have to make someone believe something if it's right and you've got something to back it up.

Hell, I don't know that anyone is right or wrong these days. Even after just a little bit of research on a few different religions, it seems like the Christians pretty much just stole all of their shit from other people and labeled it as the bible. Confucius is the one who first said the "golden rule," as far as I know.

All of the similarities between religions make me ponder whether or not everyone is a little bit right. The problem is, a lot of times people have their own personal agendas that they mix into religion. For instance, hating of homosexuals/people of color. If a "God" made homosexuals and people of color, I see no reason why he would want us to hate them.

Take Christians, for example. 90% of Christians these days don't even know what the fuck the bible is trying to say to them, they just interpret it in ways that fit their own agendas. Any Christian that supported or supports the war in Iraq is a good example of this. Jesus himself preached "turn the other cheek." When your enemy attacks you, you don't respond by attacking back, you turn the other cheek. Otherwise you're just fanning the flames. Any Christian that supports the war is going completely against the teachings of Jesus, whether or not he was the son of God.

I personally don't think anyone has it quite right, yet. I don't think humans can ever really reach that point with religion, because people will always be biased and fit their religion to their own personal beliefs. Honestly, if I HAD to pick someone who has it right right now, it would probably be Buddhists. I don't practice it myself, yet, and I'm not sure that I ever will, but I've learned more about living a good life from learning about Buddhism than I ever did from Christianity. Buddhism is a much much more personal religion. Buddha himself taught that you should never accept a teaching that you can't verify yourself with personal experience, and that until you know yourself, you can never know anything else.

If you don't know about Buddhism or the teachings of Buddha, I would highly suggest you do a bit of reading about it, even if you're a completely different religion, there's a lot to be gained just from learning what this guy had to say. He was truly wise.

Edited by !King_Amazon!

I would just like to add, not just Buddhism, but eastern religions in general seem to have the right idea. In my opinion, they are vastly superior to the religions we're all familiar with.

That's not what we're trying to do, however would that really be such a bad thing?

Not pissed off enough to commit the attrocities he created.

Christopher Hitchens seems to have done away with that fallacy, at least in my mind.

How do you mean? Care to elaborate?

Well, not at the moment. I'm only on the computer for 2 or 3 more minutes. I reccomend checking out God is not Great: How Religion Posions Everything by Hitchens.

Sounds almost, anti-christ

You're a walking bibliography!

Hitchens isn't original. Recently there's been a surge of such books. 2005 there was Harris, the first big anti-religion book in this day and age. 2006 we had Harris again, and Dawkins (the best one in my opinion) as well. Hitchens came out this year. Of course before Harris there was Smith, and then there were the big names like B. Russel, Huxley, Hume, Spinoza, etc. That isn't even getting into the ancient Greeks. I haven't read the Smith book or anything by Huxley, Hume and Spinoza. I've only read one book by Russel. Hitchens isn't the anti-christ by any means. He's just continuing what was started a long time ago.

Considering the enormous number of books I have not read, I don't deserve such an honor. Even sarcastically.

hello, mj, DUH! god created everything, that's the whole point of all that you quoted from the bible, the bible never really explains the whole, "god created everything" but the bible proves that god's words are in it. Also the only reason your looking for this pathetic play of words, is to confuse me and make me doubt in my beliefs, which in reality you know i'm speaking the truth, because you haven't quoted things that i spoke earlier about this, like the bible being inspired by god.

Your not quoting that, and saying it's false, because you know it's true, and if you said something, you'd be shutting your self up. and as for your quote about, the bible, um....yeah, not trying to tell you your a pathetic idiot, but you kinda are by quoting that, god can create earth because he has the power to, science kinda doesn't go along with that, science has nothing to do with someone creating something from nothing, the point of creating something from absolutely nothing, that's what people call magic?

but since magic doesn't exist, it must be gods power, Duh.!

another thing, (ima post this in ajiffy)

This is an ENGLISH SPEAKING FORUM!

also you said something about the bible contradicting it self in the birth of jesus, first in the 4th year then in the 6th year, i mean wtf is that? that's a dirty lie! here's why:

Daniel 9:25 says a profecy about 7 weeks, 62 weeks, and 1 week, which is the information god gave, so that it would be known when the mesaia would be known, so.

Daniel indicates how much time has passed since the moment till the mesaia would come. The profecy says: 7 weeks, and 62 weeks, which is total of 69 weeks. how much time would this pass by? like many versions of the bible indicate, it's not talking about literal weeks (see there? symbolism^^) but actually years. In other words every week would correspond to 7 years.(seven weeks 7 years dont' misunderstand) the people of that time knew very weel this idea of weeks being years, for example they would celebrate 1 year being as a saturday, after 6 years passed.

so in other words, the 69 weeks of the profecy are equivalent to 69 groups of the 7 years, or better yet a total of 483 years.

Now it's only about math, if you cound 483 years since 455 B,c. you reach the year 29 of A.D precisely the year that jesus was baptised and became the mesaia. Now the bible also says that Jesus was 30 years old when he was baptised, an di fhe was baptised at the year 29, what do you think happens then? it's so obvious! 30-29=1 (duh) so Jesus was born in the year 1, where do you get this crap about year 4 and year 6? and if people say he was born in christmas, that's abother blatant and pathetic lie.

The bible says that when jesus was born ( you know when you see the profecies, if you even care to read the context they're written in so you wont' make stupid questions later) it says that there were sheeps, and they're owners out and about, if you look at the place jesus was born, during christmas it's when it rains, heavily, so isn't it stupid that a bunch o fpeople would be out in the rain with sheep? YES, so if the bible says jesus was born when there were sheep and their owners out, that means that he couldn't have been born in christmas, other wise there'd be rain, AND dont say i made that up because i already explained the bible was inspired by god. OK?!

It's friday. I suppose I can cut myself some slack and make a real post. Lets go through this piece by piece.

You can't simply decree by fiat what is and is not inspired by an alleged God. Christian apologists fail to realize it, but this statement needs proof in itself. It is not self-evident.

Once again, there is no evidence for this. If the Bible was inspired by God, why does it unrecognizably mutilate historical and scientific fact.

Through what proposed means would he have accomplished this? Did he show himself to some prophets? If so, why were they selected instead of the regular man. Was it through voices and revelations people received? If so, how is this distinguishable from common psychosis?

Exactly! Everything we do is based on the laws of the universe. Your book, however, claims to bend some of these laws. It is no plausible.

It may have some things right. However, it provides us with countless unfulfilled prophecies, lies, gore, fallacies, and wickedness as well.

I honestly tried to decipher this. I can't.

So your parents should have the right to kill you?

I can't possibly comprehend why someone would choose to believe in something that's completely unsubstantiated and repudiated by fact that also tells him he is worthless and does not deserve to be alive. You have to be masochistic to believe in that complete, utter, rancid, festering crap.

You can't foresee a time when AI surpasses human intelligence?

Again, this is cause for moral outrage. My sins are vicarious? Bull shit. I'm not responsible for anything my parents did, especially before my conception. Fuck anyone who holds you responsible for the deeds of someone else. That includes your vile God.

This should be completely acceptable when "sonny boy" makes more practical, scientific, and moral sense than mommy and daddy.

Four of his commands revolve around his glorification. This character is dripping with arrogance. Even if I did believe in God, I would not worship the nefarious, child-murdering, conceited, fickle maniac.

WHAT?! I don't want him to lower himself to our status. I want you, and the rest of that fabricated psychopath's fan club to acknowledge his non-existence.

That was the infancy of our species.

As for your post on evolution, first of all those quotes are grossly outdated. Secondly, science does not revolve around any sort of authority. It revolves around the facts. Makes most of that post rather irrelevant.

I didn't know such a phenomenon as selective reading existed.

A circle IS flat. And here's more of what the bible says:

Ancient cultures had calculated the world was spherical before the Bible existed.

I quoted it because it is clearly an incorrect account of the world's creation, therefore it is false, fictional, not real.

LEARN TO MAKE SENSE Fucking idiot.

And as for the rest of that post, read about quantum fluctuations.

But of course you can't reconcile the birth during King Herod's era and during the era of Caesar Augustus's levied tax, can you?

Hardly, however we're going to fight back if someone's going to be attempting to ram their beliefs down our throats.

Guess which side does that the most? ;)

MJ are you stupid or what? you said you didn't understand ANYthing about the proof of god saying something from the future, well that's because your brain is too high up in that freaking place you call earth, but it's actually filled with the thoughts of satan, trying ot make you think other wise. And the thign about the 4 corners of the earth? ITS FUCKING SYMBOLISM!!! DONT' YOU GET THAT? THE BIBLE SAYS THINGS LITERAllY AND SYMBPLICAlLy, YOUR PATHETIC ATTEMPT AT UNDERSTANDINNG THESE THINGS AND MORE IMPORTANTLY YOUR pathethic and idiotic comprehention of the bible is what makes you NOT Understand everything i've said.

if you would read the context the words are written in, then yeah maybe you would understand, but i can't expect someone who was raised in a mundane family, followed by fake teachings, such as catholics, evangelism, buddha's, even aetheists, which aren't really teaching anything about the bible they jsut go against the whole bible thingy, and was is really really pissing me off right now, is the fact that, you bastards believe such lies!!!!

you think, no noone created us, we were created from a huge explotion of matter that (by some crazy sense i don't understand but since i dont 'believe in teh bible i/'ll go with it) and the world was magically created
in a instant
with tree/s and us being monkeys
and someone evolving and such
oh come fucking on how can you believe such crap? atleast when i say something about the bible, you know, i use things that make sense!!! now some useless crap you THINK happened, and if you don't understand and you can't decipher what i just said? about the whole future revealing thing, maybe you should go to alibrary and read a book, you know? not the internet, cuase the internet is full of made up lies, a book is not changed you coudl find usefull info there, go waste some of your precious time corabolating what i said and make yoru sel flook stupid cauuse you jsut can't believe the fact tha god exists, you know it's true and you won't admit it, that's how deep satan has seeped into your heart, and that's how much effort you'll never put into taking him out. when armaggedon comes, then only then will you truly see and realize that you were wrong all along, and such you will die along with allt he other non believers out there. Just like things are meant to be done.

1. Your invisible friend can create your universe and that's fine, but a volatile section of compressed matter can't expand outwards because that's unbelievable?

2. The world wasn't created in an instant in the Big Bang method, it took billions of years, you twit. Your invisible friend is the one who "created it instantly" against all evidence pointing otherwise.

3. The bible has been changed many times, especially when translated from its original Latin to English. Don't be dense.

4. If Satan is the alternative to the Old Testament god, sign me up with hell. I'd be glad to serve anyone opposing that monstrosity.

/sigh

You're a moron that believes in fairy tales. And you can't speak English. That's a double-whammy.

You should probably take a science class. And an English class.

You can begin in the evolution thread a few spots down.

I'm not shifting through your indecipherable drivel. Make it legible, and I'll read it.

You're a goddamn Jehovah's Witness, aren't you? My god, so that means you follow a cultish version of Christianity as well as use faulty translations for your bible. So why are you a Russelite?

Also, God is a sadist.

first and most importantly, jeho'va witneses dont' follow any cultish version of christianity, they follow the real way, and second and furthermore, i freakign give up, it'shard trying ot get logicn into a hard headed skull, this started out as any regular opinion and debate, people giving opinions and and debating upon certain informatin and such, this went from a O and D to a slap fest of pure argument over difference in beliefs, i am not going to participate in this any more, believe what you want, it was fun talking a little inteligent for awhile, back to my usual, spamming, time wasting, screw around all i like, self.

I bet your all so happy i'm going back to the chatterbox, tsk tsk tsk.

and as a last thing, god killed thousands of people because they thought they could go against him, defied his law, and went to side with satan, they sdeserved to die anyhow.

If you want me to stop sniping and discuss this rationally, I will. The only thing I ask is that you reply legibly. Decipherably. I don't mind typos or an occasional grammatical mistake, however I honestly can't make sense of what you type and that is more frustrating than anything, especially if you want to have a logical conversation. I don't particularly care how you type in the chat forum, but if you want me to keep it above a childish level then type at a level higher than a child.