| [05:28] System: jamer123
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| [05:28] jamer123:
communism has its own problems ... you dont want that ... socialism is the best in my own mind |
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| [09:41] System: !King_Amazon!
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| [09:41] !King_Amazon!:
Communism would work fine in a country which can support it, IMO. |
| [09:42] !King_Amazon!:
The main downfall of communism is most of the countries that have tried it are poor to begin with. When your country is poor and you distribute the wealth, everyone is poor. |
| [09:42] !King_Amazon!:
IMO, capitalism is probably the best way to get an economy going, but it has to be stopped eventually otherwise it develops a lot of issues which we are seeing today |
| [09:43] !King_Amazon!:
Socialism is probably a nice transition toward communism, once your country has established some wealth and power and can manage such a system. |
| [09:43] !King_Amazon!:
If I were running a country and I had to lay out some sort of plan for it, it would be Capitalism -> Socialism -> Communism |
| [09:44] !King_Amazon!:
Then again, I'm not a politician or a leader, and I probably don't know the entirety of what I'm talking about. But I think I'm mostly correct, at least. |
| [09:50] !King_Amazon!:
I will agree that socialism is a happy medium, though. I just don't agree that communism can't work. I don't even think totalitarianism is a requirement. |
| [09:50] !King_Amazon!:
I'm not even entirely sure that a "totalitarian communistic" nation would be worse than the overly capitalistic one we live in. |
| [09:51] !King_Amazon!:
I've talked to a guy from north Vietnam extensively about communism and he claims he'd rather live in the former |
| [09:52] !King_Amazon!:
And IMO, capitalism is fueled just as much by fear, it's just a different kind of fear. Fear of failure or fear of not having the things you require to survive |
| [09:53] !King_Amazon!:
This might actually make a good thread if anyone else feels like continuing this discussion. |
| [09:59] System: !King_Amazon!
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| [10:01] System: D3V
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| [10:01] D3V:
communism has proven throughout history that it is not only capable of working, but it's especially efficient at working. |
| [10:02] D3V:
I think the United States is only partially Capitalist anymore, it's a multiple hybrid system with mainly capitalistic ideals but still.. Moving towards socialism would be the next smart move for this country, but as long as corporations are involved in politics nothing is going to change, the rich will continue getting richer. |
| [10:04] System: !King_Amazon!
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| [10:04] !King_Amazon!:
I think the US has been capitalist for too long. |
| [10:04] !King_Amazon!:
We should have started moving more towards socialism earlier in the 20th century |
| [10:04] !King_Amazon!:
The "red scare" pretty much stopped anything like that from happening though |
| [10:05] !King_Amazon!:
The effects of that are being felt even to this day |
| [10:05] !King_Amazon!:
I'm not really sure where the US should go from here to make things better |
| [10:05] !King_Amazon!:
Sticking with capitalism seems like a bad idea but moving towards socialism seems impossible |
| [10:06] !King_Amazon!:
On an unrelated note, you should read this D3v: |
| [10:06] !King_Amazon!:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal |
| [10:07] !King_Amazon!:
They basically decriminalized all drugs for personal use in 2001 and have seen tremendous improvements across the board since then |
| [10:07] !King_Amazon!:
I've never been a supporter of decriminalizing ALL drugs but that makes it sound like a good idea |
| [10:07] D3V:
yeah, other countries have done that too not just portugal. |
| [10:08] !King_Amazon!:
Portugal is the only country I've heard of, not that I've really been looking |
| [10:08] D3V:
but portugal is the biggest success story. |
| [10:08] !King_Amazon!:
The Netherlands have lax drug policies but they aren't even as lax as portugal |
| [10:08] D3V:
yeah there are a few smaller countries that are hardly significant, portugal actually put "research" into legalizing it and kept records and statistics on it. |
| [10:08] D3V:
maybe Ron Paul is onto something? lol. |
| [10:09] !King_Amazon!:
It seems simple enough, I guess |
| [10:09] !King_Amazon!:
Prohibition creates the black market |
| [10:09] D3V:
exactly. |
| [10:09] !King_Amazon!:
It creates the profit motive which creates the black market, at least |
| [10:09] D3V:
but for US moving towards socalism? Won't happen in our lifetime |
| [10:09] !King_Amazon!:
It seems to be happening but for every two steps we take forward, we take 1.99 backward |
| [10:09] D3V:
right if there is a demand, a supply will be created. |
| [10:10] D3V:
unfortunately, that's basically right. |
| [10:10] !King_Amazon!:
The hyper-rich are largely what will prevent it, though |
| [10:10] !King_Amazon!:
Which is why I say we've been in a capitalistic economy for too long. |
| [10:10] !King_Amazon!:
Capitalism should end before the hyper-rich come into existence |
| [10:11] !King_Amazon!:
There are people in this country who have orders of magnitude more money than they will ever use or need |
| [10:11] D3V:
I think the past 30 years it has gone down dramatically since Ronald Reagan took office, I think the country was actually on the increase from 60-70's from JFK-Carter era but when Reagan came in and gave corporations so much influence into our government things have continually fallen downwards. |
| [10:11] !King_Amazon!:
Just for the sake of having it |
| [10:11] D3V:
right, and there are a lot of them. The problem is the gap that is continually widening. |
| [10:11] !King_Amazon!:
Actually we were doing pretty good with Clinton as well |
| [10:11] !King_Amazon!:
We were set to be out of debt as a country by this year under Clinton |
| [10:11] D3V:
well our countries budget, yeah. |
| [10:11] !King_Amazon!:
Instead, we're waaaaay more in debt |
| [10:12] !King_Amazon!:
I look at economies largely like a human life |
| [10:12] !King_Amazon!:
When a child is young, they are relatively harmless |
| [10:12] !King_Amazon!:
You can let them explore and do things while keeping an eye on them and they generally won't hurt anything |
| [10:12] D3V:
the Iraq/Afghanistan war, those hundreds of contracts all awarded over billions of dollars to defense contracts etc.. it's crap. our country is full of people like Kazilla that are nearly braindead and just think if they dont care the problem will just disappear. |
| [10:13] !King_Amazon!:
Eventually they get older and realize they have capabilities they didn't realize before |
| [10:13] D3V:
thats a reasonable way to look at it. |
| [10:13] !King_Amazon!:
You can't keep doing the same thing and expect the same result when the game is changing |
| [10:13] !King_Amazon!:
You have to change with the game |
| [10:14] D3V:
that's the definition of insanity amirite |
| [10:14] !King_Amazon!:
America is in its teenage years, IMO |
| [10:14] !King_Amazon!:
And we haven't made enough changes to continue being successful |
| [10:14] D3V:
well some of us thought that would be Obama, but unfortunatley he's so clusterfucked of shady ass politicians that he can't legitimately do what he wants. |
| [10:14] !King_Amazon!:
Now the teenager is doing whatever they fuck they want and the parents have no control |
| [10:14] D3V:
basically. we need to remove money from governemnt. |
| [10:14] !King_Amazon!:
IMO Obama hasn't been doing too bad, and his failures aren't for lack of trying |
| [10:15] D3V:
the corporation influence is garbage. back in the mid 70's it was enacted by reagan, and like I said it's all gone downhill since. |
| [10:15] !King_Amazon!:
A lot of it has to do with the obstructionist right |
| [10:15] D3V:
right I agree. He's doing what he can. |
| [10:15] !King_Amazon!:
I sure as hell wouldn't have done any better |
| [10:15] D3V:
but stupid people spread misinformation and flock with the rest of the sheep and just agree. It's actually part of the reason Obama got elected IMO. |
| [10:15] !King_Amazon!:
He has probably inherited one of the hardest presidencies in the history of our country |
| [10:15] D3V:
right. |
| [10:16] !King_Amazon!:
If Obama goes down as being a mediocre president, he has done a great job IMO |
| [10:16] D3V:
at least he's drawn down one of the war. |
| [10:16] D3V:
exactly. |
| [10:16] !King_Amazon!:
Because with the circumstances he was handed, it will be amazing if he isn't seen as a horrible president |
| [10:16] D3V:
right. his "approval" rating is in the low 40's i believe. |
| [10:17] D3V:
which isn't very good, bush's lowest got to mid 20's though. |
| [10:17] !King_Amazon!:
If anyone was expecting anyone else to actually fix everything, they are delusional |
| [10:17] D3V:
right. |
| [10:17] D3V:
do you think he'll be reelected in 2012? |
| [10:17] D3V:
there are rumors of him taking Hilary Clinton as his runningmate then, which I think could possibly push him over the top. it would "reunite" the democrats..lol. |
| [10:17] D3V:
for all we know, he may end up running against a tea partier. |
| [10:18] D3V:
vev |
| [10:18] D3V:
brb |
| [10:18] !King_Amazon!:
Yeah from what I've heard he might switch Clinton and Biden in his cabinet |
| [10:18] !King_Amazon!:
Honestly I think we'd be better off with Biden as president and Obama as vice |
| [10:18] !King_Amazon!:
But I don't know if Biden can watch his mouth well enough to be a functional president |
| [10:19] System: D3V
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| [10:19] !King_Amazon!:
I think if we manage to maintain majority in the house and senate, and actually manage to get some things accomplished in the next two years, Obama can probably get reelected |
| [10:20] !King_Amazon!:
Then again, we might lose the house/senate, the right make fools of themselves, and we win anyway |
| [10:26] !King_Amazon!:
On another topic, I think we need to start calling mexican "immigrants" mexican "refugees" instead |
| [10:26] !King_Amazon!:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...dquarters.html |
| [10:27] !King_Amazon!:
I don't really understand why they aren't considered refugees already |
| [10:28] !King_Amazon!:
Before much longer there will probably be domestic pressure to invade, as well. |
| [10:29] !King_Amazon!:
I think technically refugees flee for fear of persecution, not for fear of personal harm, but I think it should really be the same |
| [10:30] !King_Amazon!:
Most of the cops are corrupt, the ones that arent (if they even exist) fear going to work |
| [10:30] !King_Amazon!:
It's a sad state of affairs |
| [10:46] System: D3V
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| [10:46] D3V:
agreed. |
| [10:47] D3V:
I don't see why peolpe hate mexican immigrants/refugees anyways. They do cheap labor. The only peolpe the do care are the dumb/uneducated rednecks who couldn't manage to pass the degraded/dumbed down high school so they have to work a labor job etc. |
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| [18:39] System: Skurai
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| [18:39] Skurai:
I agree. The only remaining family I have are Mexican. |
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